Mexico Race Thread

[Massa 0]

I like that we get to watch Hamilton charge through the field. Fastest car starting last is always fun.

I don't like that Hugo has his car in first, and I don't like that it makes Vettel's journey a little easier.

I say a Lotus pulls through...

[Quiet One 15]

I say a Lotus pulls through...

Probably. Alonso must be everything but happy as 3rd was a far better option than 2nd, considering that the dusty side of the track at Barcelona will be really dusty, from the amount of polen and stuff we've seen today at qualy. And an inexperienced, ambitiious, over aggressive Maldonado is the last guy you'd like to have to beat to first corner...

This is a great chance for Team Poochie!

As for Vettel, even if I still don't like his personality he again amazed me with his sheer determination today. Keep an eye for Perez going for at least a podium finish as well...Maybe we will have an entertaining Barcelona race? George forbid!

[Quiet One 15]

Oh and, by the way, what do I see on pole? Is that one of those good-for-nothing pay drivers up there?

[JHS18 0]

Not bad for a pay driver.

[Quiet One 15]

Not bad for a pay driver.

Actually, it is all a massive conspiracy. The problem was about fuel.

Fuel - Oil - Venezuela - PDVSA - Williams - Madonado...should I say more?

[HandyNZL 1]

I think that the penalty is perfectly fair, and not any FIAsco at all.

As a driver, or an entrant to be more precise, the actions of any team member are the sole responsibility of the driver and therefore any penalty can only ever be enacted on the driver. This is the same rule that is in force from karting to Formula 1. I therefore have no problem in hearing that a supposed "team" error becomes a penalty for a driver.

Likewise, a full grid demotion for breaching the rules is far more of a deterrent for teams than, say, a $20,000 fine....the top teams make that sort of money from a race within a few laps. Starting from the rear makes the day especially hard for them, and will hopefully make them and any others think thrice about following suit in subsequent qualifying sessions.

And if they can somehow make all the cars "race" for pole, then things would be near perfect. What Vettel and Schumacher did today is not in the "spirit" of the rules or the sport, and how often have teams trotted out that the "spirit" of the rules is why they have a double diffuser or active suspension or whatever?

Should be a cracker of a race.

[Delta 0]

This rule was introduced to try to stop any patently obvious instances of cheating, not to punish team errors. Lewis gained very little from this error, he would have still been on pole even with the half extra lap of fuel. As per usual the FIA's stewards apply the rules rigidly with no interpretation of their intent, as long as it gives Ferrari or Red Bull an advantage

[F1 FANatic 1]

Looks like most people do not know the rules at all....

You have to make it back to the pits after your timed laps, in any part of Quali. This is to prevent people from runing on fumes just to get ahead of their closest compedators. The only reason you are allowed top on the track during quali for is an off, like Senna's or a mechanical problem like Kobi's. Also, you are only allowed to take part in the next session (if you have the time) only if you make it back to the pits under your own power. Had Senna for instance had a time good enough for Q2, he still would not have been allowed to go out because he came back to the pits on the back of a truck.

The fuel rule was writen because Meclaren did this once before in Canada. The FIA does not want drivers to stop right after the finish line. You can imagine one of the back markers running on fumes in Q1 just to make it into Q2. And then two backmarkers do it and then everybody does it and after each quali session you have 24 cars standing along the start/finish line.

The rule states that if you stop on track for a reason other than crashing or because of a mechanical fault or some force majure, the FIA sees it as you never having taken part in Qualifing to begin with. So it is not as though the FIA put him at the back of the grid, it technically said he never took part in qualifing and so he never set a time.

This rule goes along with the rule that your in and out laps must be relatively quick, you can't drive your in and out laps at 30kph. Remeber when we had Meclarens getting in everybodies way in Malasia because they were driving 60 kph around the entire lap to save fuel for the race when they had to quali with first stint fuel?

Now i know some people will say "hey what about all the guys stopping at the end of the race with no fuel?" Well the awnser to that is, the FIA does not say you need to make it back to the pits at the end of the race. the FIA rules say a car only needs to cary enough fuel to complete race distance. Once a car crosses the finishline it has completed race distance. Personally I think they SHOULD implement the quali rule for the Race as well. If you can not make it to the pit after the race before you run out of gas youre result should be stricken just the same.

[Massa 0]

Yeah, enforcing rules is awful. Take it from me, you don't know how good you have it with the FIA. They aren't perfect, no ruling body can be, but F1 is regulated so much more professionally than any other racing series in the world. They aren't going to get the calls perfectly right, and maybe they'll let outside factors come into play, I don't know, but they do a really good job compared to how any other series is run.

Of course, I don't have favorite drivers/teams in F1, and I do in other series, so maybe that's why I think FIA does a better a job.

But in all seriousness, it seems to me that the rule was violated, and the rule was enforced correctly. Disqualifications are much neater and much more professional. "Well this is seven and a half places on the grid, and that's £23,498.11 in fines, and this is a 33 second penalty in the next race, and that's your fastest nineteen laps disallowed, and when you do this we just take your slowest time from each sector and aggregate it into your nightmare lap." Rules like that are too arbitrary and sloppy. You break a procedural rule, you go to the back. Win and lose as a team, especially when any penalty can be a team error, even if the error is hiring the driver who screwed up.

On a different note, SPEED Channel in the U.S. won't be re-airing this one in the afternoon. They're showing a soccer match (Chelsea and Blackburn or something), which is ironic for a network called SPEED, and a Grand-Am race, which is even more ironic for a network called SPEED. Looks like I'll be seeing my first live race of the season.

[HandyNZL 1]

This rule was introduced to try to stop any patently obvious instances of cheating, not to punish team errors. Lewis gained very little from this error, he would have still been on pole even with the half extra lap of fuel. As per usual the FIA's stewards apply the rules rigidly with no interpretation of their intent, as long as it gives Ferrari or Red Bull an advantage

Doesn't matter what the rule was for...the driver lives and dies by the whole team. Plain and simple. Motorsport is NOT an individual effort - it is, and always has been, a TEAM sport.

Saying that the driver shouldn't be punished is like saying that a penalty should not be awarded in football if a defender causes the infringement and not the striker.

It has nothing to do with Red Bull or Ferrari. We all know where your allegiances lie, and there is no team dearer to the heart of a Kiwi, but this is one you need to take on the chin.

[Quiet One 15]

This rule was introduced to try to stop any patently obvious instances of cheating, not to punish team errors. Lewis gained very little from this error, he would have still been on pole even with the half extra lap of fuel. As per usual the FIA's stewards apply the rules rigidly with no interpretation of their intent, as long as it gives Ferrari or Red Bull an advantage

The rule is clear. The application might be inconsistent (I still think it's way too hash). The interpretation is and was always ultimately in hands of the FIA (or, in this case, the stewards).

The accusation of bias towards a single team from FIA has been obsoleted years ago. If anything can be said about this stewards system is that it is "fairly unfair".

I still think that if Macca hadn't so blatantly tried to weasel their way out of this, the penalty would might have been a 5 gid penalty, if not merely a fine.

In any case, the harshness of the penalty is arguable. The fact that Macca brought this on themselves without any help of FIA, RBR, Ferrari or HRT is obvious.

An amazing effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory every time.

[Quiet One 15]

Doesn't matter what the rule was for...the driver lives and dies by the whole team. Plain and simple. Motorsport is NOT an individual effort - it is, and always has been, a TEAM sport.

Saying that the driver shouldn't be punished is like saying that a penalty should not be awarded in football if a defender causes the infringement and not the striker.

It has nothing to do with Red Bull or Ferrari. We all know where your allegiances lie, and there is no team dearer to the heart of a Kiwi, but this is one you need to take on the chin.

Sorry but I disagree. You don't have to punish everybody, every time. Unless we are missing something LH seems pretty innocent in all this. FIA has ways of punishing just the team, or even the team and driver without being so harsh on someone who was merely a secondary character at best.

After all, Button is in the same team and he not only was not punished but benefited from all this

My theory: McLaren was obviously lying all the time. The fuel rule breach was there. When confronted with the stewards about both the rule breaching on fuel and the fact that they lied (bringing the sport into disrepute, remember?), they probably negotiated a compromise: full acceptance of the penalty in exchange of no mention of the disreputing part which would have probably ejected Whitmarsh right away and perhaps some others and fueled (no pun intended) what it already must be quite a political storm inside the team.

[Massa 0]

No no no no no no no no no no. No.

That's the most articulate way I could present how I feel about penalizing drivers/teams separately.

[Quiet One 15]

No no no no no no no no no no. No.

That's the most articulate way I could present how I feel about penalizing drivers/teams separately.

I don't think teams and drivers should be penalized separately ALL the time. I was merely making a reductio ad absurdum taking from Craig's post . In this case, even if I consider that LH did not take part in this I understand that he should have been penalized anyways, just not that harsh. Perhaps a lesser grid penalization plus a huge fine? Let's say...USD 100.000.000?

That would be Ok with me

Or...they could strip the team from points in this race towards the WCC and demote Lewis car to last place, but letting him keep his place on the grid. He would then start from pole on foot, having to run for a whole lap before getting into his car.

Or make him stay after the race in the same room with Massa, Maldonado, Alonso and Sutil for 5 hours.

Or forcing him to watch his "Apollo on strings" performance again and again.

Man, I am good at punishments!

[LabradoRacer 2]

Correct decision to penalize Lewis. Hope he has a barnstormer of a race, though.

[The Shadow 0]

An amazing effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory every time.

That is an accurate assesment it seems. This is just getting plain silly from Mclaren. You wouldn't accept this sort of unprofessionalism from even a Caterham and these guys get mostly free passes from fans. They should apologise to us Macca fans for doing this time and again this season. If they help Lewis and he wins today, then I could probably forgive them, but nothing less than a 1-2 victory would do

[dribbler 6]

That is an accurate assesment it seems. This is just getting plain silly from Mclaren. You wouldn't accept this sort of unprofessionalism from even a Caterham and these guys get mostly free passes from fans. They should apologise to us Macca fans for doing this time and again this season. If they help Lewis and he wins today, then I could probably forgive them, but nothing less than a 1-2 victory would do

Indeed.

I fear the nature of the track will start to hurt Lewis's attempts to get anywhere near the podium, as soon as he clears the gaggle of six at the very back. He's got Massa to deal with shortly thereafter and the Force India's are sure to pose a problem with their identical grunt.

Top ten would be a result. But it should have been oh so more. He must be livid that he has a genuine, if not straight forward stab at the title, only to be let down by school boy errors.

[LabradoRacer 2]

Alonso, Kimi, Rosberg, Schumi now on the dirty side of track. Some of them could get passed at the start.

[Ikyrotz 0]

I believe part of the reason for the harsh penalty is that this wasn't the first time McLaren had underfueled Lewis and make him stop on the out lap. Must feel sorry for Lewis though, he did everything right.

[The Shadow 0]

Who's doing the race report? Look forward to the action later.

[Quiet One 15]

That is an accurate assesment it seems. This is just getting plain silly from Mclaren. You wouldn't accept this sort of unprofessionalism from even a Caterham and these guys get mostly free passes from fans. They should apologise to us Macca fans for doing this time and again this season. If they help Lewis and he wins today, then I could probably forgive them, but nothing less than a 1-2 victory would do

I feel for you but, then again...who told you to be a Macca fan?

Join the dark and gold side of the Force! Come to the Team Poochie (Lotus/Lada/Whatstheirname/Someinternetthingie.com F1)

[The Shadow 0]

A "Lotus" Toleman from Enstone? I'll pass..

And anyway I use head & shoulDRS, not Clear

[Quiet One 15]

The more I think about it, the more the Poochies seem like the best candidates for the win here. It has been so long since I last felt this way! I think the last time was when I was trying my mum's underwear and...oops.

So...no rain today, huh?

[LabradoRacer 2]

Haha, Sky Sports showed Vettel, running in 7th as the "leader".

[LabradoRacer 2]

Good start by Massa.