Magyar Nagydíj

[AleHop 0]

Interesting race. Both qualifying and race happened on a dry and hot track, normal circumstances I'd say, where McLaren and Lotus showed a very strong pace during the race. Hamilton managed the situation quite well from lap 1 and kept a very strong Lotus team behind. If it had been Canada, probably both Raikkonen and Grosjean would have finished ahead and we would have had a new winner and... It was Hungary which helped Alonso too in his job of keeping as many cars as possible behind his F2012 and Red Bull didn't look in bad form despite the enginemapgate. Vettel wasn't too far from the leaders and Webber paid for his mistake in Q3.

Alonso, Webber, Vettel, Hamilton and Raikkonen are the candidates for the championship it seems they appear in reverse order in the standings.

[Rainmaster 7]

Probably one of the least exciting on track races of the year, but still intriguing to watch, which says a lot about how entertaining this year is. Driver of the day? I'll go for Raikkonen! But driver of the weekend was Hamilton, who was basically flawless throughout. Can't avoid the feeling that the Lotus should have won at least one race by now and probably more, though. Grosjean is very fast but showed his inexperience today. Lotus should be extremely competitive at Spa (Kimi's favorite track) where they will run their new DRS thingamajig for the first time. Alonso did a fair damage limitation job, they obviously still have work to do if Alonso is to keep that championship lead for the remainder. Other than that, agree with sentiments about the Williams drivers: Maldonado remains reckless; happy to Senna up there.

[JHS18 0]

I guess Schumacher is a quitter and not a real racing driver since he retired because he didn't have a chance to win.

Yes. As I said before. It doesn't matter who it is - Vettel, Schumacher, Hamilton - if they retire early with a none-existent problem, it is a poor show.

But let's not get into that. I don't think I'll keep my sanity if that's all we have to discuss over the next five weeks.

[Massa 0]

Charles Pic has finished ahead of Timo Glock in the last two races.

Comparison between teammates of races in which points were scored, order by largest differential, with bolded driver ahead in classification:

Alonso 11 - 5 Massa

Räikkönen 10 - 6 Grosjean

Senna 6 - 2 Maldonado

Rosberg 8 - 5 Schumacher

Hamilton 9 - 7 Button

Webber 10 - 9 Vettel

Pérez 5 - 5 Kobayashi

di Resta 5 - 5 Hülkenberg

Vergne 1 - 1 Ricciardo

Kovalainen 0 - 0 Petrov

Glock 0 - 0 Pic

Karthikeyan 0 - 0 de la Rosa

Point being: none at all.

And now for your start/finish differentials, including retirements because it's just as unfair and meaningless any way you want to do it and may as well just be a list of drivers in reliable cars who suck in qualifying:

Vergne +36

Pérez +34

Räikkönen +32

Alonso +25

Glock +25

Pic +23

Karthikeyan +20

Webber +18

di Resta +9

Kovalainen +9

Senna +8

Petrov +8

de la Rosa +8

Hülkenberg +1

Ricciardo +1

Rosberg -3

Massa -5

Kobayashi -15 (hamster wheel award for always overtaking cars and never actually going anywhere)

Vettel -16

Button -22

Hamilton -25

Maldonado -33

Grosjean -57

Schumacher -81 (Mercedes really, really, really suck)

Relative to his terrible qualifying, Jean-Éric Vergne's mediocre races are the best in the world, while Marussia's race day performances are absolutely extraordinary!

Median classifications on the year (where a driver finishes on a normal day):

Alonso: 3

Webber: 4

Vettel: 4

Hamilton: 5

Räikkönen: 5

Grosjean: 6

Rosberg: 7

Button: 9

Senna: 10

Pérez: 11

Kobayashi: 11

di Resta: 11

Hülkenberg: 11

Massa: 12

Maldonado: 13

Ricciardo: 13

Vergne: 14

Kovalainen: 17

Petrov: 18

Glock: 19

Pic: 20

de la Rosa: 21

Karthikeyan: 22

Schumacher: Retired (no, really)

Therefore, we can conclude that a normal race has no winner, making F1 2012 even more incredible to have a winner each round.

And my favorite paraphrased and probably misheard quotes of the race weekend:

Sergio Pérez: Show your tattoos.

Kamui Kobayahsi: No...I have private part...

Bob Varsha: Wind Tunnel with guest hosts John Andretti and David Hobbs...who were once teammates in sports cars.

David Hobbs: Yes, we were, back in 19...whenever it was...

Bob Varsha: Andretti must have been about 6 years old.

He is slower than me. Do something!

That's all I have to subtract value from the discussion. I hope we get some big signings and news and rumors this month...

[Quiet One 15]

There you go, twisting words, taking things out of context to make Seb look like a jerk! Makes me so mad when people do that!

What he actually said was not: "He is slower than me. Do something!" but the exact opposite: "I'm much faster thank him. Do something!"

See? Totally different.

Wait...

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Death to Maldonado.

The marshalls are crazy: Maldonado with all his errors, did nothing wrong this time; just a race incident. With this rules Mansell, Schumi, Senna, Gilles, Scheckter and many other never reached their 3rd season!

[AleHop 0]

I love Eric's statistics.

I think it will be very impotant the first two or three races after the summer break. The championship winner will need a fast car very soon because it will be a mini season with 9 races in 3 months. There will be no time for much improvement in the car and I think Hamilton and Raikkonen are in some way ahead in that respect, although have less room for mistakes/bad weekends. The F2012 didn't look a car worthy of a championship today. It's hard to know the reason why that happened this season but I can hardly see Alonso winning it in November if that's their real pace in a hot and dry weekend.

I ask for no holidays in Maranello until the F2012 could possibly win the race in Hungaroring today.

The marshalls are crazy: Maldonado with all his errors, did nothing wrong this time; just a race incident. With this rules Mansell, Schumi, Senna, Gilles, Scheckter and many other never reached their 3rd season!

I would agree with you if it had been his first racing incident. In the past it was easier to make a mistake and bang wheels every now and then but in present days F1 cars&drivers are precise like surgeons. I think it's time for Maldonado to realise that and stop wasting his talent.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

I love Eric's statistics.

I think it will be very impotant the first two or three races after the summer break. The championship winner will need a fast car very soon because it will be a mini season with 9 races in 3 months. There will be no time for much improvement in the car and I think Hamilton and Raikkonen are in some way ahead in that respect, although have less room for mistakes/bad weekends. The F2012 didn't look a car worthy of a championship today. It's hard to know the reason why that happened this season but I can hardly see Alonso winning it in November if that's their real pace in a hot and dry weekend.

I ask for no holidays in Maranello until the F2012 could possibly win the race in Hungaroring today.

I would agree with you if it had been his first racing incident. In the past it was easier to make a mistake and bang wheels every now and then but in present days F1 cars&drivers are precise like surgeons. I think it's time for Maldonado to realise that and stop wasting his talent.

With Pirelli tyres? It fade at 5 seconds per lap! Did you see Perez at the end of the first stint? An hungarian version of holiday on ice! Maldonado has his mind in GP2; he didn´t realise he is driving in F1 but with the same rule the marshalls must reprimended Kimi and Grosjean!

[dribbler 6]

Another retirement for Schumi. I will be very much surprised if he decides to re-sign with this gobSh#te team.

Hmm, I rather think it's more a case of Mercedes considering whether they want him. Driving to the wrong grid position, then switching off the engine are the actions of someone with senile dementia. Come on Michael, for goodness sake.

The marshalls are crazy: Maldonado with all his errors, did nothing wrong this time; just a race incident. With this rules Mansell, Schumi, Senna, Gilles, Scheckter and many other never reached their 3rd season!

Pastor would have got away with this had it not been for his previous misdemenours. Now, like it or not, the Stewards will keep a lid on his dubious moves with punishments such as these. I hate to see racing tempered, but he has to take responsibility for his actions and stay out of troubler for a while. For the record, I think this incident was unfortunate, not clumsy or deliberate, but there you go. He has the spotlight on him.

I love Eric's statistics.

I think it will be very impotant the first two or three races after the summer break. The championship winner will need a fast car very soon because it will be a mini season with 9 races in 3 months. There will be no time for much improvement in the car and I think Hamilton and Raikkonen are in some way ahead in that respect, although have less room for mistakes/bad weekends. The F2012 didn't look a car worthy of a championship today. It's hard to know the reason why that happened this season but I can hardly see Alonso winning it in November if that's their real pace in a hot and dry weekend.

Hungary is different in character to some of the other circuits; there are slow corners with hight levels of tyre degradation. As such, it suits cars with great driveability out of corners (like the Lotus) and cars which have not fared too well of late at the quicker tracks (like the McLaren). I think it distorts the picture slightly and leading us to believe that Ferrari's performance has suddenly been erroded.

I think that summer break improvements aside, if we went to Spa right now, the Ferrari (in the hands of Fernando) and Red Bull would still be right up there.

It's been difficult to spot trends all year long and for this reason I think the unpredictable nature of the season will continue. I believe that Mclaren coming back into the mix will aid Alonso, as will Lotus finding a bit more speed. Alonso's real rivals are Vettel and Hamilton. They will have their hands full of tripping over each other and being blown away with Kimi's post race enthusiasm at 'another' second place.

All the while, Alonso will creep over the line to his third title. That''s my logic.

[LabradoRacer 2]

Hmm, I rather think it's more a case of Mercedes considering whether they want him. Driving to the wrong grid position, then switching off the engine are the actions of someone with senile dementia. Come on Michael, for goodness sake.

Read about that today. Embarrassing mistakes from Schumi.

[JHS18 0]

The marshalls are crazy: Maldonado with all his errors, did nothing wrong this time; just a race incident. With this rules Mansell, Schumi, Senna, Gilles, Scheckter and many other never reached their 3rd season!

Completely agree. I didn't think what Maldonado did in Hungary was as bad as other incidents.

I do find it completely frustrating that anything and everything gets penalised, especially on a track where it is notoriously hard to overtake on. Kudos to Maldonado for having a go and trying to cause some excitement. Are the stewards trying to put drivers off from having a go?

Unless the contact is deliberate and malicious (which this wasn't) then I really don't see why the penalty was needed. They are racing afterall, and it is inevitable that sometimes contact will be made.

If I was in charge there would be no need for stewards for most the time.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I think that summer break improvements aside, if we went to Spa right now, the Ferrari (in the hands of Fernando) and Red Bull would still be right up there.

It's been difficult to spot trends all year long and for this reason I think the unpredictable nature of the season will continue. I believe that Mclaren coming back into the mix will aid Alonso, as will Lotus finding a bit more speed. Alonso's real rivals are Vettel and Hamilton. They will have their hands full of tripping over each other and being blown away with Kimi's post race enthusiasm at 'another' second place.

All the while, Alonso will creep over the line to his third title. That''s my logic.

Sorry Steve, have to disagree..

Hungary suits the RBR car more than any other car, because it's the best aerodynically car designed. This is the place where they excel, although with Hamilton creeping in the last to years with pole's made the difference. Has Lotus improved dramatically to such an extent that they can challenge consistently? The stats prove it! 3rd on the constructors and a good all-round performance from BOTH their drivers. Look at the qualifying performance, they are certainly doing something right. This is not a once-off luck performance gaining podium time. This Sh#t is real!!!! They are serious mother****ing contenders and will push all the top teams hard. I expect them to fight for podiums at every track from now onwards cause it seems they have an experience driver(ahem) driving them onwards and forwards... hey, the results speak for themselves.

I don't think Alonso will win a 3rd title while Hamilton is on the scene, but thats my personal opinion. Whats going to happen is that Alonso will systematically begin to lose his championship lead till Vettel, Hamilton and Kimi has caught up, and I believe this will happen very soon because Massa is not doing his nr2 job!!!

[JHS18 0]

because Massa is not doing his nr2 job!!!

He's not exactly been doing a very convicing number two job all season, and it hasn't stopped Alonso leading the championship.

Saying this as a Vettel fan - I have been mighty impressed with Alonso in the first half of this season. He's still the only guy who has scored points in every race, whilst everyone else has been making mistakes.

Hard to bet against anyone other than Alonso winning the title so far, but there's still 9 races to go.

[LabradoRacer 2]

I believe Alonso will at best lose the WDC by a narrow margin.

[Rainmaster 7]

Alonso's lead really isn't that convincing, it's impressive that he's got it through excellent driving, but it's easily lost if Ferrari isn't quick enough to win dry races outright (and we don't know whether it is or not for the rest of the year). Alonso's ahead because he made hardly any mistakes, whereas the others all did quite a lot of mistakes, to be honest. Webber for example is doing his usual "up and down" performance over the season, dominant at some tracks and nowhere at others: no title for him. Kimi has taken time to get up to speed and made mistakes in qualifying, as have Lotus (hence his frustration at not winning yet), but could still easily be a candidate if Lotus remain so competitive from now on. Vettel? He got frustrated a few times and has made mistakes (backmarkers, obviously illegal passes, etc), but we know too well what Red Bull and Vettel can do once they get into a rhythm. Hamilton? Not far from Alonso in terms of driving consistently but lost a lot of points through Mclaren's various c#ck-ups. Alonso hasn't had his ineviatable "bad race" yet where he gets a puncture, or Maldonado tries to overtake him, or whatever, and with the points given as they are, there are still at least four strong candidates for this title: FA, LH, SV, KR*. Who wins will depend like Dribs said on development in these remaining races, and of course who can cut out mistakes the best.

*Button and Webber are excluded as I don't see them beating their team mates over the season, and Grosjean is likely to be too inexperienced when it comes down to it.

[Rainmaster 7]

Charles Pic has finished ahead of Timo Glock in the last two races.

Charles Pic was the only driver who Autosport awarded "10/10" in their rate the driver column for the Hungarian Grand Prix. Ferrari should sign him immediately.

[JHS18 0]

10/10 for what?! Driving at the back?

[dribbler 6]

Sorry Steve, have to disagree..

Hungary suits the RBR car more than any other car, because it's the best aerodynically car designed. This is the place where they excel, although with Hamilton creeping in the last to years with pole's made the difference. Has Lotus improved dramatically to such an extent that they can challenge consistently? The stats prove it! 3rd on the constructors and a good all-round performance from BOTH their drivers. Look at the qualifying performance, they are certainly doing something right. This is not a once-off luck performance gaining podium time. This Sh#t is real!!!! They are serious mother****ing contenders and will push all the top teams hard. I expect them to fight for podiums at every track from now onwards cause it seems they have an experience driver(ahem) driving them onwards and forwards... hey, the results speak for themselves.

I don't think Alonso will win a 3rd title while Hamilton is on the scene, but thats my personal opinion. Whats going to happen is that Alonso will systematically begin to lose his championship lead till Vettel, Hamilton and Kimi has caught up, and I believe this will happen very soon because Massa is not doing his nr2 job!!!

You are bordering on the nonsensical. Hungary suits the Red Bull best? So why, in the hands of both Webbr and Vettel could they not show that? Bad hair day for both, simultaneously? I don't think so. Or maybe you are suggesting that Hamilton is suddenly superior to Vettel to the extent that even with the best car, he can now beat Vettel in his Red Bull whenever he so choses?

Alonso's lead really isn't that convincing, it's impressive that he's got it through excellent driving, but it's easily lost if Ferrari isn't quick enough to win dry races outright (and we don't know whether it is or not for the rest of the year).

Alonso won in Germany, in the dry. It still needed his cunning and daring to do it, but then frankly, he's been using that all year. As long as he can remain consistent, with a continuation of the brilliance he has had all year, the title is his. It might be delivered in that kind of 'creep over the line 2009 Button stylee', but I think he'll do it.

Even on a bad day yesterday, he stretched his lead, such are the many contenders all tripping over each other.

[JHS18 0]

You're very right with what you post.

The Ferrari may well not be the best car at every track - but the one thing Alonso does have in his armoury is consistency. How many races has it been that Alonso has finished in the points consecutively now? A lot.

The problem for Alonso's rivals is that there is no definite challenger emerging due to it being so competitive at the moment. Silverstone it was Webber, Hockenheim it was Vettel and Button, this last race it was Hamilton and the Lotuses. It was the same with Vettel last year - no one was consistent enough to make any kind of dent in his championship advantage even on bad days, simply because they weren't consistent enough.

It isn't a forgone conclusion that he'll win the title this year, but I think he is going to be a very, very hard man to beat. You only have to look at how he has been driving this year - he hasn't missed any opportunities.

[Quiet One 15]

Alonso is on top because he is consistent and the others in superior cars are not (or inferior or whatever, but in any case as competitive as Nando)

His troubles will arise as the other teams become more consistent. His best shot is either Ferrari outperforming the competitors in the upgrade race (yeah, as if) or hoping that his consistency offsets the fact that the competitors have now to battle each other in the consistency race for the second part as to catch him.

In any case is going to be a gripping championship for the second half as well.

Oh, and Massa as you can see is not the best number 2 nor for the team nor for Alonso. Alonso would have benefited a lot more from a guy that took points from his competitors. Massa consistently out of the points serves nothing. Massa finishing one or two places behind Alonso means one less points giving position for the other guys.

What does this all mean? That I like using the word consistency a lot. I think I used it consistently during all this post.

[Rainmaster 7]

Alonso's win in Germany owed as much to his skill in wet qualifying the day before, than his defensive tactics against a "slow" in a straight line Red Bull. Again, I think everybody agrees: Alonso is driving consistently and maximising his opportunities. But if the maximum he can do with the car in the 9 remaining races is 3rd, 4th, 5th then it doesn't matter how consistent he is, drivers like Kimi, Vettel and Hamilton will quickly erode his lead because they are gradually becoming much more consistent and are likely to make less mistakes in the second half of this championship.

Ferrari do seem like they now have at least a good understanding of the Pirelli tyres, but their car still isn't outright the fastest or most adaptable car for every track and until they have that the title remains wide open, brilliant Alonso or not. Alonso and Ferrari both said as much.

Alonso stretching his lead is a little false, because he only stretched it on Webber who is performing badly at the moment, other championship contenders caught up significantly in just one race.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Alonso's win in Germany owed as much to his skill in wet qualifying the day before, than his defensive tactics against a "slow" in a straight line Red Bull. Again, I think everybody agrees: Alonso is driving consistently and maximising his opportunities. But if the maximum he can do with the car in the 9 remaining races is 3rd, 4th, 5th then it doesn't matter how consistent he is, drivers like Kimi, Vettel and Hamilton will quickly erode his lead because they are gradually becoming much more consistent and are likely to make less mistakes in the second half of this championship.

Ferrari do seem like they now have at least a good understanding of the Pirelli tyres, but their car still isn't outright the fastest or most adaptable car for every track and until they have that the title remains wide open, brilliant Alonso or not. Alonso and Ferrari both said as much.

Alonso stretching his lead is a little false, because he only stretched it on Webber who is performing badly at the moment, other championship contenders caught up significantly in just one race.

pus he has yet to have a bad day at the office, not that I'm maliciously wishing it upon him, it's just difficult to keep up that level of consistency....something's gotta give one way or another...

[Rainmaster 7]

Yep, be it through mechanical failure, pit stop problems, a puncture, collision or his own mistake, he's likely to have a day out of the points, which most people had already. On that day, he will probably lose 25 points to a key rival. Honestly, there's a very long way to go and the days of "lottery" racing (it never was but anyway) are now gone, with big teams getting their act together... like Andres said all of this will make for a really good final 9 races.

[dribbler 6]

What does this all mean? That I like using the word consistency a lot. I think I used it consistently during all this post.

I noitced the same earlier with myself using the phrase 'as such' too much. As such I will try and stop saying this as consistently as I have.

Alonso's win in Germany owed as much to his skill in wet qualifying the day before, than his defensive tactics against a "slow" in a straight line Red Bull. Again, I think everybody agrees: Alonso is driving consistently and maximising his opportunities. But if the maximum he can do with the car in the 9 remaining races is 3rd, 4th, 5th then it doesn't matter how consistent he is, drivers like Kimi, Vettel and Hamilton will quickly erode his lead because they are gradually becoming much more consistent and are likely to make less mistakes in the second half of this championship.

Ferrari do seem like they now have at least a good understanding of the Pirelli tyres, but their car still isn't outright the fastest or most adaptable car for every track and until they have that the title remains wide open, brilliant Alonso or not. Alonso and Ferrari both said as much.

Alonso stretching his lead is a little false, because he only stretched it on Webber who is performing badly at the moment, other championship contenders caught up significantly in just one race.

Good points, well made. As such, on reflection I agree.

[AleHop 0]

Hungary is different in character to some of the other circuits; there are slow corners with hight levels of tyre degradation. As such, it suits cars with great driveability out of corners (like the Lotus) and cars which have not fared too well of late at the quicker tracks (like the McLaren). I think it distorts the picture slightly and leading us to believe that Ferrari's performance has suddenly been erroded.

I agree. Probably the F2012 is not as bad as it looked in Hungary where the characteristics of the track, the hot weather, etc. might have showed a distorted picture of the actual performance of the car. On the other hand, what we saw in Hungary is real, Ferrari/Alonso are leading the Championship because of many circumstances like a win in the wet in Malaysia, a pole in the wet in Germany, a perfect race in Valencia that happens once or twice in a season at best...

I think that summer break improvements aside, if we went to Spa right now, the Ferrari (in the hands of Fernando) and Red Bull would still be right up there.

If we went to Spa right now, I think a dry and hot weekend could be a hell for Ferrari and a heaven for Lotus and McLaren. As you say there will be improvements but I see Ferrari in more need of development than Lotus, McLaren or Red Bull.

I understand that Alonso considered yesterday's race as a good result, it could have been much worse, but he(they) knows that the car has to be competitive right after the summer break. Spa and Monza are the last 2 races in Europe and if the F2012 didn't show competitive for poles and wins, the advantage could disappear very fast.

I don't know if I'm being pessimistic but I get the impression that Ferrari's R&D department is jammed, full of ideas that don't work. They solved some serious problems once F1 got back to Europe and that's it, they've brought nothing new in the last moth. Thanks to the advantage they have, they can afford it but once F1 leaves Europe again it will be difficult to do what they haven't done in the previous months. They have 5 weeks before they go to Belgium, 8 weeks before they start racing outside Europe. They could even say, ok we're going to go damage limitation in Belgium and Spa and will have a rocket of a car for Singapure onwards. They could score 0 point in Spa and Monza and Alonso might still be leading the championship. What I mean is that this championship is for Ferrari to lose it but without the right development of the car they might easily lose it.