Jb Vs Rb

[nojvnof1 0]

Quite, just look at 1997 with JV in the Williams FW19

[jerry 0]

see jenson was struggling in the renault in the first year but he beat trulli the next ,reubens is a great driver but i think button may just be quicker but reubens can race and overtake !!!

[schumi13 0]

I'm afraid that you're showing your ignorance once more. DC had a couple of seasons in a world championship winning car, no more, however he has faced team-mates of the calibre of Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen and Kimi Raikkonen and DC couldn't beat them, and not many drivers could so this is baseless criticism. It is absolutely pointless to speculate whether Jenson has the potential to become world champion. However, despite what you may think several lesser/equal talents have won the championship in exceptional cars in the past, JV is a good example, so even though Jenson is clearly not the best driver in F1, he still has a chance.

Senna if I was ignorant like some others I would say Jenson is rubbish. He isn't but he wont win a drivers title so there you go.

[Senna 0]

Senna if I was ignorant like some others I would say Jenson is rubbish. He isn't but he wont win a drivers title so there you go.

You have missed the point entirely! If he is given a fabulous car he could very well win the world title, like several other less than spectacular drivers have done in the past

[Buttonfan 0]

gotta agree senna

[kup 0]

Please I beg everyone not to reply to this topic - we've argued over this so much I feel like doing this

Lets just see what happens next year. No doubt everyone thinks Button is total crap except me, Jenson_Rules, and Senna + KUP =)

Hey man ! my name is ... what ? ... how ? who ?

Button will beat Rubens a bit =)

[Buttonfan 0]

Button will definately beat Barr, its not even a thing to talk about

[Shadow 0]

Damon convincingly trounced JV when they were team-mates in 1996

yeah he did when JV was in his rookie year

[pumpdoc 2]

R.B. hands down I think he'll teach the Brit a thing or two......

[demonhorse 0]

So now you're saying JB doesnt even deserve to be in f1 - and yet 2 top teams have fought it out for him. Fisi has won 2 races, both due to rain intervention and being in right place at right time. I suppose in your mind, that makes him a better driver than Button?? And if RB had retired from the lead in China last year, and JB had won (he came 2nd last year), does that suddenly make him a driver worthy of f1? Think how easily JB could've won last year, if the leader had crashed out - do you see why you can't base your entire opinion just on whether they've won a race or not. In 2002 Fisi got voted the drivers' driver by the drivers themselves, and he hadn't won a race.

No-one said he wasn't 'worthy' of F1, though he does need a better manager who can teach him that a contract is a contract. All that's been said is he isn't the 'best-thing-since-sliced-bread' like certain members here seem to think he is, and I doubt that opinion will change until he actually has that ever-elusive race WIN. I hope he does well personally, but I do think there are superior drivers out there.

[nojvnof1 0]

Yes, Damon is another example of an inferior driver winning the championship in a fabulous car but he is not as good an example as JV for Damon was more successful in the best car and out of it than JV has been.

JV won seven races to Frentzen's one in 1997. Jacques ended up with 81 points to Frentzen's mid-40's points tally. In 1996, JV won 4 races to Damon's 8 and took the title to the final race, losing by 19 points in the end, due to JV's right rear overtaking him when in 4th at Suzuka. Damon beat JV by a bit, but a trouncing is a major overestimation.

JV on the other hand only got a couple of lucky podiums at BAR and was then sacked and has since been beaten by Jenson Button, Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa in equal machinery! Damon

[Senna 0]

Damon beat JV by a bit, but a trouncing is a major overestimation.

Not at all! It was a royal trouncing:

Damon got twice as many victories (winning 50% of the total races in 1996) and three times as many pole positions as his Canadian team-mate

[nojvnof1 0]

Hill 97 points, Villeneuve 78 points - FACT

19 point difference, look at other team battles in the Championship winning team, and then you'll see what a trouncing is. I've already mentioned '97, this year with Alonso scoring 70 points more than Fisi so far is another example. Perfect weekends don't get any points.

Damon got twice as many victories (winning 50% of the total races in 1996) and three times as many pole positions as his Canadian team-mate

[Shadow 0]

absolutely

[Wez 0]

Hill 97 points, Villeneuve 78 points - FACT

19 point difference, look at other team battles in the Championship winning team, and then you'll see what a trouncing is. I've already mentioned '97, this year with Alonso scoring 70 points more than Fisi so far is another example. Perfect weekends don't get any points.

what does that prove? You forget to add the 5 years of experience Hill had in comparison to JV's solitary pre season.

Royal trouncing my foot!

I gotta agree with nojvnof1 here!

and also remember that JV would have beaten Hill in his first ever GP in Australia had it not been for Williams and their team orders!

[monza gorilla 1]

I gotta agree with nojvnof1 here!

and also remember that JV would have beaten Hill in his first ever GP in Australia had it not been for Williams and their team orders!

JV went off the road and damaged his car. He was losing oil pressure and had to back off. This is well documented. There were no team orders.

[Wez 0]

JV went off the road and damaged his car. He was losing oil pressure and had to back off. This is well documented. There were no team orders.

Thats in a perfect world what Williams would like us to believe

[monza gorilla 1]

Thats in a perfect world what Williams would like us to believe

I watched that race, and I'm happy that there was no underhand dealing.

[Wez 0]

I watched that race, and I'm happy that there was no underhand dealing.

Fair enough, Im still not completely convinced having also watched it.

[monza gorilla 1]

Fair enough, Im still not completely convinced having also watched it.

I suppose we'll never know for sure. Let's agree to disagree on this one.

[Wez 0]

I suppose we'll never know for sure. Let's agree to disagree on this one.

Ok

[nojvnof1 0]

monza gorilla is right. JV went off track at turn 1 and damaged an oil pipe. You could see after the incident, as the race progressed that Damon Hill's rear wing was gradually getting covered in oil from the read of JV's car. There were no team orders or anything suss, JV would probably not have finished had he kept racing. JV paid for his own mistake.

[monza gorilla 1]

monza gorilla is right. JV went off track at turn 1 and damaged an oil pipe. You could see after the incident, as the race progressed that Damon Hill's rear wing was gradually getting covered in oil from the read of JV's car. There were no team orders or anything suss, JV would probably not have finished had he kept racing. JV paid for his own mistake.

Good grief, so my memory hasn't gone completely.

JV was a bit over enthusiastic that day, but still a bloody impressive debut.

[ksajoe 0]

Sorry to break your hearts - but the next British WDC is certainly not going to be JB! He might get a win or two along the way. I do not dislike him, I think he is a nice marketable lad who can drive an F1 quite well. He is good for the sport in UK - but beyond his marketability there is little more.

He has not shown us any flashes of genius and although I cannot repeat this enough - he has not won a single race (and there have been opportunities). He does not have the killer instict which would have given him at least 3 wins by now.

Having RB in the team is good for JB as it will lift his game as he will have a person capable of matching, if not beating him. Possibly there is something he is holding in reserve, but it's obviously the wrong sport to hold anything back. He is not the same caliber as FA, KR & JPM - these are the three chaps who will be dorminating from no onwards.

Being able to read his talent does not make me anti-JB. I have never hidden my love for Senna and I think he will remain my best F1 driver for a long long time to come. I am also an avid fan and admirer of MS as I think he is a class act and has no peers on the current grid. But if one were to express negative things about MS I will not necessarily label them as anti-MS. GROW UP FELLAS!!!

Notwithstanding his many overtaking maneuvors in Belgium, he's not much of a racer Ben.

I particulary liked the manouver RB put on him at interlagos. Signs of times to come??

Spectacular passing manoeuvres! We were treated to several moves at Germany, Turkey and Spa! He does need to improve his defensive driving ability though but one of the reasons he has not refined this skill is because he is rarely pressured by the other competitors, there are not many instances where a considerably faster car is behind him

[nojvnof1 0]

Good grief, so my memory hasn't gone completely.

JV was a bit over enthusiastic that day, but still a bloody impressive debut.

it seems your memory is fine mate, and yes it was impressive, I just wish his whole career was like that

Oh, on the topic of next British Champ, I think it will be Lewis Hamilton.