Toro Rosso To Use Adrian Newey Designed Car

[Jean Todt 4]

Yeah, that might happen. This is one of the items I'll be watching closely.

There will be slight differences in the chassis because STR and RBR aren't using the same engine, but essentially true.

I've been reading up on this and the whole situation doesn't make sense to me. I understand that the Red Bull company and the F1 team Red Bull Racing are treated as two separate entities. I understand that the Red Bull company isn't bound by the Concorde Agreement and can design a chassis, but what I don't get is why RBR and STR, both signatories to the Concorde Agreement, aren't being held to the most basic philosophy of F1 rule-making...that the chassis must be designed and built by each team in-house. I'm not a lawyer so the fine points are probably lost on me. I'll admit straight-up that I just don't understand how this (and to a lesser degree the Honda/SA situation) can come about.....any great minds care to explain it to me in small words.

Okay okay, I am getting bored, but I would like to start a conspiracy theory that makes some sense!

STR's experience with Bridgestones may not make much difference as they didnt have much facilities to actually use it. We all know that last years car was essentially 2005 Redbull with Bridgestones (MICHELINS for 2005).

But here is the tricky part, I wont really be suprised STR outperforming the Redbulls. Know why?

They are going to use Ferrari engines and transmissions which are built keeping Bridgestones in mind.

Here is the difference between the Michelins and Bridgestones in terms of weight distribution.

Michelins: They like more weight to be placed on the front, ie. You need to place the engine transmission a liitle more forward inorder to distribute with weight. We all know Sauber used Ferrari engines and strugled for most of the time, but towards the end of 2005 they realized this weight distribution trick and started performing better after they made the required modification the chassis.

Bridgestones: They like the weighs to be equally distributed. One of the reasons why Redbulls struggled may be due to lack of their experience with an Engine that was essentially built to run on a set of different brand (quality) of tyres to theirs. Redbulls and Newey may have had a thorough knowledge about Michelins but not Bridgetones.

So, I guess STR may well outclass Redbull in the first half of the season. I guess redbulls should have stuck with Ferrari!

[Autumnpuma 0]

Okay okay, I am getting bored, but I would like to start a conspiracy theory that makes some sense!

STR's experience with Bridgestones may not make much difference as they didnt have much facilities to actually use it. We all know that last years car was essentially 2005 Redbull with Bridgestones (MICHELINS for 2005).

But here is the tricky part, I wont really be suprised STR outperforming the Redbulls. Know why?

They are going to use Ferrari engines and transmissions which are built keeping Bridgestones in mind.

Here is the difference between the Michelins and Bridgestones in terms of weight distribution.

Michelins: They like more weight to be placed on the front, ie. You need to place the engine transmission a liitle more forward inorder to distribute with weight. We all know Sauber used Ferrari engines and strugled for most of the time, but towards the end of 2005 they realized this weight distribution trick and started performing better after they made the required modification the chassis.

Bridgestones: They like the weighs to be equally distributed. One of the reasons why Redbulls struggled may be due to lack of their experience with an Engine that was essentially built to run on a set of different brand (quality) of tyres to theirs. Redbulls and Newey may have had a thorough knowledge about Michelins but not Bridgetones.

So, I guess STR may well outclass Redbull in the first half of the season. I guess redbulls should have stuck with Ferrari!

I like it.

[pabloh20 1]

Okay okay, I am getting bored, but I would like to start a conspiracy theory that makes some sense!

STR's experience with Bridgestones may not make much difference as they didnt have much facilities to actually use it. We all know that last years car was essentially 2005 Redbull with Bridgestones (MICHELINS for 2005).

But here is the tricky part, I wont really be suprised STR outperforming the Redbulls. Know why?

They are going to use Ferrari engines and transmissions which are built keeping Bridgestones in mind.

Here is the difference between the Michelins and Bridgestones in terms of weight distribution.

Michelins: They like more weight to be placed on the front, ie. You need to place the engine transmission a liitle more forward inorder to distribute with weight. We all know Sauber used Ferrari engines and strugled for most of the time, but towards the end of 2005 they realized this weight distribution trick and started performing better after they made the required modification the chassis.

Bridgestones: They like the weighs to be equally distributed. One of the reasons why Redbulls struggled may be due to lack of their experience with an Engine that was essentially built to run on a set of different brand (quality) of tyres to theirs. Redbulls and Newey may have had a thorough knowledge about Michelins but not Bridgetones.

So, I guess STR may well outclass Redbull in the first half of the season. I guess redbulls should have stuck with Ferrari!

What happens if this conspiracy theory turns out to be truth - does it then become conspiracy fact ?

[duest 0]

STR's experience with Bridgestones may not make much difference as they didnt have much facilities to actually use it. We all know that last years car was essentially 2005 Redbull with Bridgestones (MICHELINS for 2005).

They ran Michelins in 2006 too...

As for the STR and Super Aguri situation, I don't like it one bit. Regardless of whether it is technically legal or not, it is clearly against the spirit and the intent of the 2007 rules. This is emphasised by the 2008 rule change to allow customer cars. I have no respect for any entity that enters into an agreement, where the intent of the agreement is clear, and then tries to weasel their way around it, which is the case here.

[Jean Todt 4]

They ran Michelins in 2006 too...

As for the STR and Super Aguri situation, I don't like it one bit. Regardless of whether it is technically legal or not, it is clearly against the spirit and the intent of the 2007 rules. This is emphasised by the 2008 rule change to allow customer cars. I have no respect for any entity that enters into an agreement, where the intent of the agreement is clear, and then tries to weasel their way around it, which is the case here.

i thought they used bridgestones thanks for correcting me. Anyways as i said, it doesn't matter!

[Jean Todt 4]

What happens if this conspiracy theory turns out to be truth - does it then become conspiracy fact ?

lets wait and see

[Player(1) 0]

If both RBR and STR use the same chassis and aero developments RBR will come out top because the Renault engine is better at heat rejection so will have a smaller drag coefficient.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

i'm confused cos surely it would make sense if they both use the same engine if they're going to use same chassis

[ykickamoocow 0]

i'm confused cos surely it would make sense if they both use the same engine if they're going to use same chassis

Im sure they would if they could but since the Red Bull company signed a 2 year contract with Ferrari one of the Red Bull teams had to have a Ferrari eninge in 2007 and since the Renault engine is considered to be the better one the Ferrari engine was given to the junior team of Toro Rosso. Im sure when the Ferari contract runs out at the end of 2007 they will sign a new contract with Renault so both teams will be on the same engine in 2008.

[Jean Todt 4]

If both RBR and STR use the same chassis and aero developments RBR will come out top because the Renault engine is better at heat rejection so will have a smaller drag coefficient.

We have to wait and see, Ferrari had the best engines (i think they are the best) but Sauber couldn't convert it to results, better heat rejection doesnt mean they have the best engine.

[Jean Todt 4]

Im sure they would if they could but since the Red Bull company signed a 2 year contract with Ferrari one of the Red Bull teams had to have a Ferrari eninge in 2007 and since the Renault engine is considered to be the better one the Ferrari engine was given to the junior team of Toro Rosso. Im sure when the Ferari contract runs out at the end of 2007 they will sign a new contract with Renault so both teams will be on the same engine in 2008.

I guess you are true, Redbulls may be just waiting for Ferrari deal to run out.

[Player(1) 0]

We have to wait and see, Ferrari had the best engines (i think they are the best) but Sauber couldn't convert it to results, better heat rejection doesnt mean they have the best engine.

Ferrari's aero wasent the same as Renaults so the bigger drag Ferrari had from engine cooling was offset by better ground effect efficiency. Stick the same level of aero development on both car's and youd see the Renault powered car needing smaller radiators giving it an advantage...

Funny thing is though that Spyker sent a letter to other teams asking if they think the rules should forbid other teams using the same chassis and one of the teams siding with Spyker was Redbull...more to this then meets the eye i'm thinking.

[Autumnpuma 0]

We have to wait and see, Ferrari had the best engines (i think they are the best) but Sauber couldn't convert it to results, better heat rejection doesnt mean they have the best engine.

Post-homologation, the two major factors that will determine the 'best' engine will be reliability and weight. So far, the Renault is more dependable than the Ferrari, but I wouldn't count on that to be the case for the whole season. Ferrari's reliability record is better than everyone's.

[Jean Todt 4]

Post-homologation, the two major factors that will determine the 'best' engine will be reliability and weight. So far, the Renault is more dependable than the Ferrari, but I wouldn't count on that to be the case for the whole season. Ferrari's reliability record is better than everyone's.

True, last season's blowup was simply a rare one, considering they were as reliable as tractor engines in the past. I think Renault's over all performance was simply a superb combination of aero, software and good engine, but only time will tell if its engine are the best.

[F1 FANatic 1]

i think both the Ferrari and Renault engines are equal in reliability. all the engine failures last season by both teams were due to freak accidents and not the basic construction of the engine or drive train.

[Jean Todt 4]

i think both the Ferrari and Renault engines are equal in reliability. all the engine failures last season by both teams were due to freak accidents and not the basic construction of the engine or drive train.

True!

[Argento Reloaded 1]

If you allow the same owner has two teams what do you expect about the technical issues? The problem is the FIA! You must be so stupid to think taht Toro Rosso and Red Bull never will exchange technical data and share resources -first of all the money! Ok you can argue the TR money came from left pocket and RBR came from right pocket... come on!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

but if they share data then both teams performance should really be almost exactly the same

[c21 0]

but if they share data then both teams performance should really be almost exactly the same

Depending on the drivers.

[c21 0]

As you started this topic Ykick, I thought you may be interested.

I have heard from a friend of mine who works at STR, he said that the only real difference between the two cars are the engine mounts.

I think the Sh#t is gonna fly from the other teams when these cars are revealed!

[ykickamoocow 0]

I have heard from a friend of mine who works at STR, he said that the only real difference between the two cars are the engine mounts.

Very interesting. I would love to have a friend who works for a F1 team as i would be privy to alot of information that the normal person wouldnt be. I bet the Toro Rosso engineers are rubbing their hands together as most of them worked for Minardi so odds are this will be the first time they get a competitive car to work on.

[c21 0]

Very interesting. I would love to have a friend who works for a F1 team as i would be privy to alot of information that the normal person wouldnt be. I bet the Toro Rosso engineers are rubbing their hands together as most of them worked for Minardi so odds are this will be the first time they get a competitive car to work on.

I would say its the same at BMW Sauber, finally some cash to play with!

[Jean Todt 4]

Very interesting. I would love to have a friend who works for a F1 team as i would be privy to alot of information that the normal person wouldnt be. I bet the Toro Rosso engineers are rubbing their hands together as most of them worked for Minardi so odds are this will be the first time they get a competitive car to work on.

yeah, finally those guys can keep their chin up!

[Quiet One 15]

yeah, finally those guys can keep their chin up!

Unlike DC's...

[Autumnpuma 0]

I have heard from a friend of mine who works at STR, he said that the only real difference between the two cars are the engine mounts.

Can you be more specific? Is this referring to the size/shape of the mounts or the location of them (and the engine) along the car? The first would be no big deal, but the second would be a large difference (weight distribution for one thing).