Lewis Hamilton : Petulant Child

[Jez 0]

I sourced this from www.sidepodcast.com its 2nd or 3rd topic on the home page-

[i think Ron Dennis made a mistake signing Lewis Hamilton for 2007. I believe he would have been better off putting McLaren test driver Gary Paffett in the 2nd seat instead.

Now, I appreciate these views may be at odds with every single other person* in the UK right now, but I honestly believe this to be the case. Here

[cavallino 2]

Gary Paffett He'd be qualifying somewhere behind the Renault, who'll protect Alonso's then?

[DOF_power 0]

I've posted it on other treads. This simply explain how and what F1 is.

> It's also a buisness

> Driver are employees, you take care of them, but it's the team that counts.

> You have to be prepared and plan ahead and choose who gets the better strategy.

> It's a TEAM SPORT ultimately

" ... if somebody finds that wrong it really means they're not understanding the nature of this sport" Pat Symonds

[pabloh20 1]

I sourced this from www.sidepodcast.com its 2nd or 3rd topic on the home page-

[i think Ron Dennis made a mistake signing Lewis Hamilton for 2007. I believe he would have been better off putting McLaren test driver Gary Paffett in the 2nd seat instead.

Now, I appreciate these views may be at odds with every single other person* in the UK right now, but I honestly believe this to be the case. Here

[Jez 0]

Did Gary Paffett write this by any chance?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I sourced this from www.sidepodcast.com its 2nd or 3rd topic on the home page-

[i think Ron Dennis made a mistake signing Lewis Hamilton for 2007. I believe he would have been better off putting McLaren test driver Gary Paffett in the 2nd seat instead.

Now, I appreciate these views may be at odds with every single other person* in the UK right now, but I honestly believe this to be the case. Here

[Jem of the Shire 0]

that crap made me so angry that I just had to post a reply to her (on the website). Stupid cow

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Did Gary Paffett write this by any chance?

hell, maybe even Alonso

[Sato 0]

Whats so wrong with it? Sure LH is getting better results than I imagine GP would, but they make good points about the agenda and mouth of LH, which could cause problems (already has, really).

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Whats so wrong with it? Sure LH is getting better results than I imagine GP would, but they make good points about the agenda and mouth of LH, which could cause problems (already has, really).

what mouth? he hasnt publically moaned or complained at all

McLaren arent about supporting 1 driver, and to be honest I dont see why Alonso should automatically get no.1 status just because he's a champion. I admire how mclaren always try and have 2 strong drivers fighting each other

[pabloh20 1]

Whats so wrong with it? Sure LH is getting better results than I imagine GP would, but they make good points about the agenda and mouth of LH, which could cause problems (already has, really).

Aside from being somewhere between out of context quotes at best and complete fallacy at worst?

[pabloh20 1]

hell, maybe even Alonso

The only thing for certain is it wasn't K-i-m-i !!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The only thing for certain is it wasn't K-i-m-i !!

oh god I hope....not

[pabloh20 1]

This is the bit I am really struggling with -

think

[mikathegreat2 2]

That's just plain crap! Hamilton knows he can be faster than Alonso on track but somehow can't show it on raceday! In qualifying Hamilton steps over Alonso with world class times but always finishes 2nd best on the day his fantastic lap times matter most!

[Max Mosley 2]

that crap made me so angry that I just had to post a reply to her (on the website). Stupid cow

I suspected it was written by a woman. It's emotional ranting. I imagine she has a thing for Gary...

What does everyone reckon, is it possible?

No, and nor does Pat Symmonds, as you can hear in DOF's link in the other threads. Alonso was just trying to cover up the fact that Hamilton was telling the truth. Ron Dennis also said the same as Hamilton too, so he is probably equally off message.

[Autumnpuma 0]

This thread is a boring attempt to troll for controversy.

[Jean Todt 4]

to everyone who is ranting about something even after it is clear!

[Quiet One 15]

to everyone who is ranting about something even after it is clear!

Nice pics...but a rather poor argument

The fact that there are many threads about this issue shows that this is anything but clear!

Regarding the podcast (my comments based purely on the transcript, I won't hear it at work!) I think it is a bucnh of whining and ranting from a decidedly anti Lewis person (no idea who they are or why do they think like that)

They have a point, though *ominous chord*: All this bs was started by Lewis comments at the press conference so he is to blame to some degree.

So, even as it is clear for you, abbas, for me this is clear:

1) The race pace for the McLarens might have been manipulated...the finishing order hardly so.

2) The fact that LH got a heavier fuel load is, if Cav allows me the copyright infringement, rubbish.

Since when the fact that one of the drivers get a heavier fuel load a sign that he was deprived of a worthy win? What should Kubica, Trulli and others say, then?

Mental excercise: forget about what happened. Close your eyes...relax...now imagine the same scenario but with Alonso racing with a heavier fuel load and being beaten by Hamilton. Would you accept that his chances were hindered by that? Or will many of you be ecstactic chanting "a rookie has beaten Alonso"? Let's put things into perspective! Yes, heavier fuel load usually hinders a drivers chances to battle with his teammate. Then again, you can't prevent that, all teams do that all the time and no one even bothers to point that out. If Lewis had a problem with that, he should have said so BEFORE the race, after all the pilots have some incidence in their own race strategies don't they?

I recall last year Alonso got a lot of bashing for last years strategy at hungary...how come he was responsible for that strategy yet Lewis is completely innocent fo Monaco's strategy this year?

Double standards aside, the only manipulation left is the unexplainable pitting strategy for Lewis. Anyways, if he was in a one stopper, how come he only got 6 more laps of fuel than Alonso? That would not have carried him through half the race. A one stopper with 26 laps of fuel meant that he would have had to race his second stint with a dozen cans of gasoline on his lap or call a tanker plane and refuel in flight! Anyways, the fact that he was called a few laps earlier and that MIGHT have ended in a 1st position for Lewis is a rather weak argument to support a conspirative theory.

He should have been more discreet. That's my only critic for him. For his supporters, you shouldn't get so carried away. This was no actual fraud. Use your memory and recall other situations and you will notice that this is nothing like any of those (your pick: MS/RB, DP/GV, CR/AJ...whatever!)

[Sato 0]

what mouth? he hasnt publically moaned or complained at all

McLaren arent about supporting 1 driver, and to be honest I dont see why Alonso should automatically get no.1 status just because he's a champion. I admire how mclaren always try and have 2 strong drivers fighting each other

"I'm the number 2 driver and I have to live with it " - LH

"I'm going to destroy Alonso" - rumoured pre-season talk from LH. (I didn't believe it at the time, but the more this kid is around, the more I believe it).

"Back of the grid monkeys" - LH

"The backmarkers held me up more then Alonso "

"Webber held me up " - LH not mentioning his mistake in Q3, and instead blaming the nearest car.

He has a mouth as the top 2 or 3 show, he has an ego as they all show.

[Sato 0]

This is the bit I am really struggling with -

Another quote said this -

Obviously, I am not too bright either, that goes without saying. However, how can the same car, albeit with 5 laps less fuel, save fuel on the formation lap, when you are governed by the safety car, then pull out a lead of about 9s, I think it was, by lap 26 and save 2 laps of fuel in the process? What does everyone reckon, is it possible?

You can save fuel on every single lap you want to, including the 'sighting lap' or whatever they call it when you go out to the grid.

[pabloh20 1]

You can save fuel on every single lap you want to, including the 'sighting lap' or whatever they call it when you go out to the grid.

So you think it is possible that he saved 2 laps worth of fuel?

[pabloh20 1]

Nice pics...but a rather poor argument

The fact that there are many threads about this issue shows that this is anything but clear!

Regarding the podcast (my comments based purely on the transcript, I won't hear it at work!) I think it is a bucnh of whining and ranting from a decidedly anti Lewis person (no idea who they are or why do they think like that)

They have a point, though *ominous chord*: All this bs was started by Lewis comments at the press conference so he is to blame to some degree.

So, even as it is clear for you, abbas, for me this is clear:

1) The race pace for the McLarens might have been manipulated...the finishing order hardly so.

2) The fact that LH got a heavier fuel load is, if Cav allows me the copyright infringement, rubbish.

Since when the fact that one of the drivers get a heavier fuel load a sign that he was deprived of a worthy win? What should Kubica, Trulli and others say, then?

Mental excercise: forget about what happened. Close your eyes...relax...now imagine the same scenario but with Alonso racing with a heavier fuel load and being beaten by Hamilton. Would you accept that his chances were hindered by that? Or will many of you be ecstactic chanting "a rookie has beaten Alonso"? Let's put things into perspective! Yes, heavier fuel load usually hinders a drivers chances to battle with his teammate. Then again, you can't prevent that, all teams do that all the time and no one even bothers to point that out. If Lewis had a problem with that, he should have said so BEFORE the race, after all the pilots have some incidence in their own race strategies don't they?

I recall last year Alonso got a lot of bashing for last years strategy at hungary...how come he was responsible for that strategy yet Lewis is completely innocent fo Monaco's strategy this year?

Double standards aside, the only manipulation left is the unexplainable pitting strategy for Lewis. Anyways, if he was in a one stopper, how come he only got 6 more laps of fuel than Alonso? That would not have carried him through half the race. A one stopper with 26 laps of fuel meant that he would have had to race his second stint with a dozen cans of gasoline on his lap or call a tanker plane and refuel in flight! Anyways, the fact that he was called a few laps earlier and that MIGHT have ended in a 1st position for Lewis is a rather weak argument to support a conspirative theory.

He should have been more discreet. That's my only critic for him. For his supporters, you shouldn't get so carried away. This was no actual fraud. Use your memory and recall other situations and you will notice that this is nothing like any of those (your pick: MS/RB, DP/GV, CR/AJ...whatever!)

Andres, I don't think people have an issue with the heavier fuel load or implying it cost him the win. I am also fairly sure Lewis would have had some input into the fuel levels, though being in his first year he may defer to the team more than Alonso would, for example. I don't even think that is the issue, either. It's basically pulling him in early for pitstops early not once, but twice. Personally, I don't think it would have affected the outcome, but it is curious why they felt the need to do it.

The 1 pitstop surprised me too, but I think if he had come in on the correct lap, it would have been lap 32 or 33 or something, I think, which would leave 45/46, which is not unheard of.

As for his comments, if you read the transcripts of the press conference, it was like you said in other threads - they keep asking the same questions, but from different angles. And I think there was also a touch of mind games at play in response to Alonso's comments.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I have to comment here, Andres.

1) The race pace for the McLarens might have been manipulated...the finishing order hardly so.

I agree that the finishing result wasn't manipulated, but telling the drivers they cannot 'race' is not what I call racing.

2) The fact that LH got a heavier fuel load is, if Cav allows me the copyright infringement, rubbish.

Since when the fact that one of the drivers get a heavier fuel load a sign that he was deprived of a worthy win? What should Kubica, Trulli and others say, then?

I agree with your conclusions, but Hamilton did in fact get a heavier fuel load for the first stint (that isn't really the part the rubs most people, I'll explain below).

Mental excercise: forget about what happened. Close your eyes...relax...now imagine the same scenario but with Alonso racing with a heavier fuel load and being beaten by Hamilton. Would you accept that his chances were hindered by that? Or will many of you be ecstactic chanting "a rookie has beaten Alonso"? Let's put things into perspective! Yes, heavier fuel load usually hinders a drivers chances to battle with his teammate. Then again, you can't prevent that, all teams do that all the time and no one even bothers to point that out. If Lewis had a problem with that, he should have said so BEFORE the race, after all the pilots have some incidence in their own race strategies don't they?

True enough, but Hamilton's strategy was revised by the team and they called him in 4-5 laps early...when he could have put in low-fuel fast laps and taken advantage of Alonso's out-lap slowness.

I recall last year Alonso got a lot of bashing for last years strategy at hungary...how come he was responsible for that strategy yet Lewis is completely innocent fo Monaco's strategy this year?

As I said, the team called Lewis in 4-5 laps early because they feared a SC would come out (highly unlikely with the weather conditions and the speed at which the previous accidents were cleared...those accidents only had local yellows).

Double standards aside, the only manipulation left is the unexplainable pitting strategy for Lewis. Anyways, if he was in a one stopper, how come he only got 6 more laps of fuel than Alonso? That would not have carried him through half the race. A one stopper with 26 laps of fuel meant that he would have had to race his second stint with a dozen cans of gasoline on his lap or call a tanker plane and refuel in flight!

He wasn't on a one-stopper, but he did get called in early, right when drivers usually take advantage of low fuel levels and their opponents' pits (MS did this quite a bit).

Anyways, the fact that he was called a few laps earlier and that MIGHT have ended in a 1st position for Lewis is a rather weak argument to support a conspirative theory.

Glad you agree with me. Personally, I would like to have seen that 'might' instead of the definite 'not' that we got served on Sunday.

He should have been more discreet. That's my only critic for him. For his supporters, you shouldn't get so carried away. This was no actual fraud. Use your memory and recall other situations and you will notice that this is nothing like any of those (your pick: MS/RB, DP/GV, CR/AJ...whatever!)

Ah, but getting carried away gets the blood pumping and the adrenal gland working! All hail fanatacism!!

[pabloh20 1]

He wasn't on a one-stopper, but he did get called in early, right when drivers usually take advantage of low fuel levels and their opponents' pits (MS did this quite a bit).

Ron said Lewis was on a 1 stop strategy with the option of changing to a 2 stop, I think, or it may have been the other way around! Anyway, whatever it was, that's what Andres was referring to.