Lewis Hamilton : Petulant Child

[Autumnpuma 0]

Hmm....

[BRMC 0]

I think LH has a long way to go b4 reaching the pinnacle of big mouthed gobSh#teness!

A driver with backbone who calls a spade a spade should be commended.

Long live the ballsy, ego-driven, 'say it like it is' man, he will surely win Aussie/NZ hearts.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Ron said Lewis was on a 1 stop strategy with the option of changing to a 2 stop, I think, or it may have been the other way around! Anyway, whatever it was, that's what Andres was referring to.

Regardless of what strategy he was originally given, this is perhaps the best expression of the situation:Source: formula1.com - FIA Ruling

"Had the car in front of Hamilton not been his team-mate, McLaren might (probably would) have decided to risk the safety car and let Hamilton run for as long as his fuel load allowed in the hope that he would come out of the pits in the lead after one of his pit stops. There is, however, no obligation on them to take this risk in order to overtake their own car. Indeed it would be foolish to do so."

Clearly the key point is whether or not Lewis was allowed to conduct his race as a competitor to Fernando. This statement proves that he was not. If you read the whole statement, it mentions that the risk of a Safety Car was the determining factor in McLaren calling Lewis in early....and goes on to state the chance of that happening was 'small'.

[aussief1 4]

Another quote said this -

Obviously, I am not too bright either, that goes without saying. However, how can the same car, albeit with 5 laps less fuel, save fuel on the formation lap, when you are governed by the safety car, then pull out a lead of about 9s, I think it was, by lap 26 and save 2 laps of fuel in the process? What does everyone reckon, is it possible?

No it's not possible at the lap speed that Fernando was doing in the first stint IMO. Fernando used the same saving fuel excuse for his pace in the Australian GP aswell.

I don't know what Fernando does to save laps worth of fuel in one stint and still do competitive laps in but I sure am interested to find out!

This thread is a boring attempt to troll for controversy.

Agree.

You can save fuel on every single lap you want to, including the 'sighting lap' or whatever they call it when you go out to the grid.

And still put in quick laps like he did? I think not somehow

Admit it Fernando, Lewis had your measure pure and simple.

[newredsuit 0]

Are ppl still going on about this?

LH didn't get a fair go!

Yes he did.

No he didn't.

FA is better.

No he isn't.

Ladies, handbags at 20 paces please.

Or put ur heels back on and walk away!

[Jean Todt 4]

Nice pics...but a rather poor argument

The fact that there are many threads about this issue shows that this is anything but clear!

Regarding the podcast (my comments based purely on the transcript, I won't hear it at work!) I think it is a bucnh of whining and ranting from a decidedly anti Lewis person (no idea who they are or why do they think like that)

They have a point, though *ominous chord*: All this bs was started by Lewis comments at the press conference so he is to blame to some degree.

So, even as it is clear for you, abbas, for me this is clear:

1) The race pace for the McLarens might have been manipulated...the finishing order hardly so.

2) The fact that LH got a heavier fuel load is, if Cav allows me the copyright infringement, rubbish.

Since when the fact that one of the drivers get a heavier fuel load a sign that he was deprived of a worthy win? What should Kubica, Trulli and others say, then?

Mental excercise: forget about what happened. Close your eyes...relax...now imagine the same scenario but with Alonso racing with a heavier fuel load and being beaten by Hamilton. Would you accept that his chances were hindered by that? Or will many of you be ecstactic chanting "a rookie has beaten Alonso"? Let's put things into perspective! Yes, heavier fuel load usually hinders a drivers chances to battle with his teammate. Then again, you can't prevent that, all teams do that all the time and no one even bothers to point that out. If Lewis had a problem with that, he should have said so BEFORE the race, after all the pilots have some incidence in their own race strategies don't they?

I recall last year Alonso got a lot of bashing for last years strategy at hungary...how come he was responsible for that strategy yet Lewis is completely innocent fo Monaco's strategy this year?

Double standards aside, the only manipulation left is the unexplainable pitting strategy for Lewis. Anyways, if he was in a one stopper, how come he only got 6 more laps of fuel than Alonso? That would not have carried him through half the race. A one stopper with 26 laps of fuel meant that he would have had to race his second stint with a dozen cans of gasoline on his lap or call a tanker plane and refuel in flight! Anyways, the fact that he was called a few laps earlier and that MIGHT have ended in a 1st position for Lewis is a rather weak argument to support a conspirative theory.

He should have been more discreet. That's my only critic for him. For his supporters, you shouldn't get so carried away. This was no actual fraud. Use your memory and recall other situations and you will notice that this is nothing like any of those (your pick: MS/RB, DP/GV, CR/AJ...whatever!)

For fans like me it would be really disappointing to know if the race was manipulated, may be after ten years or so, either Hamilton or one of the crew member would admit it, who knows, form the way Ron speaks, he may well admit it even during the next race.

The reason why I showed a finger to the MORONS were because of the fact that there are too many threads, and too many baseless arguments, one guy even claims that he is a Kubica fan and he seems to support Hamilton suddenly after knew Hamilton has the most support here. And over that, I was really p**sed off after yesterday's work in shop. Anyways, I chilled after listening to Smooth Jazz - Slash - Spanish Guitar-Obsession Confession!

[Piotr 0]

Gary Paffett He'd be qualifying somewhere behind the Renault, who'll protect Alonso's then?

You mean whine about being number 2? Gee, I can do THAT...

[Jez 0]

This thread is a boring attempt to troll for controversy.

to everyone who is ranting about something even after it is clear!

Agree.

Yeah, The Hami- Monaco affair has been chewed over alot here I agree. I posted this thread because I was interested to know what my fellow TF1 Members thoughts were on the content of the article, seeing as how at odds it is with how many fans feel about the young Brit. But I welcome a change of topic as much as you guys if someone has something fresh to talk about!

[Piotr 0]

what mouth? he hasnt publically moaned or complained at all

McLaren arent about supporting 1 driver, and to be honest I dont see why Alonso should automatically get no.1 status just because he's a champion. I admire how mclaren always try and have 2 strong drivers fighting each other

err, do we live in the same universe? The rookie may have cost McLaren tens of millions in lost revenue if they are punished by FIA, and you claim he didn't do anything? Have I done something like Hamilton did, I'd be fired in 5 minutes. Also, I agree he began to believ he is a Superman. My prediction - Hamilton is going to wreck this year.

[Piotr 0]

Regardless of what strategy he was originally given, this is perhaps the best expression of the situation:Source: formula1.com - FIA Ruling

"Had the car in front of Hamilton not been his team-mate, McLaren might (probably would) have decided to risk the safety car and let Hamilton run for as long as his fuel load allowed in the hope that he would come out of the pits in the lead after one of his pit stops. There is, however, no obligation on them to take this risk in order to overtake their own car. Indeed it would be foolish to do so."

Clearly the key point is whether or not Lewis was allowed to conduct his race as a competitor to Fernando. This statement proves that he was not. If you read the whole statement, it mentions that the risk of a Safety Car was the determining factor in McLaren calling Lewis in early....and goes on to state the chance of that happening was 'small'.

Kubica commented on new safety car rules at the beginning of the season, when he stated that the new rules force teams to load ONE of their cars with extra fuel in case the "lighter" car runs out under caution. That means that one of the drivers will ALWAYS be heavier for a couple of laps - just in the event of safety. No conspiracy, just team TACTICS. Duh!

[Schumikonen 2]

I sourced this from www.sidepodcast.com its 2nd or 3rd topic on the home page-

[i think Ron Dennis made a mistake signing Lewis Hamilton for 2007. I believe he would have been better off putting McLaren test driver Gary Paffett in the 2nd seat instead.

Now, I appreciate these views may be at odds with every single other person* in the UK right now, but I honestly believe this to be the case. Here

[Piotr 0]

I got some questions here

LH hamilton was fueled to last a certain amount of laps in the first stint, but liek he said he was called eralier, do you really think that Alonso saving fuel had something to do with the remaining laps in LH's car?

I mean if he was set to stop after 20 laps he would stop after 20 lap regardless how Alonso is driving, I don't think Alonso's pace will take the fuel out of LH's car, do you?

It doesn't make sense to me what Alonso said I think Alonso was trying to hide what really happen in the race.

Is it only in F1 that a driver learn to save fuel?

It is possible to save fuel for an extra two lap while you are setting the pace and driving faster than everybody else?

IMO LH should have some extra laps in his fuel tank beacuse he was driving a slower pace and that is what save fuel, you can say whatever you want about this that this doesn't make much sense, the race was manipulated by Mclaren and both driver knew this, LH was not happy because he was affected by this and Alonso was covering the whole story to look like the hero of the day, remember "you have to decide in advance" nothing more to say.

I don't KNOW, but maybe my post above will explain some of it. I belive the new rule says that a car can pit under caution only after the safety passes the pit. this may mean an entire extra lap and, possibly, running out of fuel. Since then, each team has a "heavy" and a "light" car to make sure that at least one car has enough fuel for extra laps under caution. Looks like Hamilton, being behind Alonso, got the duty of carrying extra fuel.

All of the above is only my speculation based on interviews with the drivers, because I did NOT read the rule itself. So, I may be out of my depth on this one...

[reds88 0]

I just think that there are too many unconfirmed things regarding the whole incident. To me, Mclaren deserved a 1-2 finish, that means 18 points, as they were the quickest. Who finished first and second, dont really matter to me. If currently mclaren has preference to Alonso, I dont see what's the big deal with that. In a couple of years time, the situation could well be reversed.

[cavallino 2]

However, how can the same car, albeit with 5 laps less fuel, save fuel on the formation lap, when you are governed by the safety car, then pull out a lead of about 9s, I think it was, by lap 26 and save 2 laps of fuel in the process? What does everyone reckon, is it possible?

It's a red herring. With rev limited engines, identical cars etc. you cannot save two laps of fuel.

[Schumikonen 2]

I just think that there are too many unconfirmed things regarding the whole incident. To me, Mclaren deserved a 1-2 finish, that means 18 points, as they were the quickest. Who finished first and second, dont really matter to me. If currently mclaren has preference to Alonso, I dont see what's the big deal with that. In a couple of years time, the situation could well be reversed.

Everything here is ok until we get to the point that team orders are ilegal and any manipulation of the race is ilegal too, I am not against team orders but they are ilegal right now and looks like a team was manipulating the result of the race, they deserve a one two finish no doubt about it but what about the fans and what about thoses who bet for a driver that can not win because it was decided in advance, fi we know that team order are legal we would be expecting them any moment in case like this but they are suppose to be banned and that's what is causing all this. To me a driver is an employee of the team and have to obey and do what is best for the team, but rules says somethng different to this and that is why you see people lying to hide what they are doing.

[Schumikonen 2]

I don't KNOW, but maybe my post above will explain some of it. I belive the new rule says that a car can pit under caution only after the safety passes the pit. this may mean an entire extra lap and, possibly, running out of fuel. Since then, each team has a "heavy" and a "light" car to make sure that at least one car has enough fuel for extra laps under caution. Looks like Hamilton, being behind Alonso, got the duty of carrying extra fuel.

All of the above is only my speculation based on interviews with the drivers, because I did NOT read the rule itself. So, I may be out of my depth on this one...

I read that but that doesn't explain why Alonso was aloud to use all his fuel even the fuel he saved and Lh was not, LH said that eh was called in earlier that means that he was set to pit some laps latter that what he really did adn this have nothing to do with Alonso saving fuel, being heavir is not an unfear treatment is the driver is aloud to get the best out his strategy but in this race that wasn't the case for LH.

[aussief1 4]

Yeah, The Hami- Monaco affair has been chewed over alot here I agree. I posted this thread because I was interested to know what my fellow TF1 Members thoughts were on the content of the article, seeing as how at odds it is with how many fans feel about the young Brit. But I welcome a change of topic as much as you guys if someone has something fresh to talk about!

Yeah I know mate it is a little quite on the news front at the moment.

I don't KNOW, but maybe my post above will explain some of it. I belive the new rule says that a car can pit under caution only after the safety passes the pit. this may mean an entire extra lap and, possibly, running out of fuel. Since then, each team has a "heavy" and a "light" car to make sure that at least one car has enough fuel for extra laps under caution. Looks like Hamilton, being behind Alonso, got the duty of carrying extra fuel.

All of the above is only my speculation based on interviews with the drivers, because I did NOT read the rule itself. So, I may be out of my depth on this one...

No cars may enter the pit lane until all cars have formed behind the safety car and "PIT LANE OPEN" is shown on the timing monitors.

It's a red herring. With rev limited engines, identical cars etc. you cannot save two laps of fuel.

Exactly Cav, I can't understand why FA keeps refering to saving fuel when it seems almost impossible to save laps worth of fuel and still post competitive lap times.

[Jez 0]

Exactly Cav, I can't understand why FA keeps refering to saving fuel when it seems almost impossible to save laps worth of fuel and still post competitive lap times.

Yeah! Thats a confusing one

[Jem of the Shire 0]

err, do we live in the same universe? The rookie may have cost McLaren tens of millions in lost revenue if they are punished by FIA, and you claim he didn't do anything?

how would've it been his fault????? If mclaren were found guilty, then its mclarens fault!!!

[reds88 0]

Everything here is ok until we get to the point that team orders are ilegal and any manipulation of the race is ilegal too, I am not against team orders but they are ilegal right now and looks like a team was manipulating the result of the race, they deserve a one two finish no doubt about it but what about the fans and what about thoses who bet for a driver that can not win because it was decided in advance, fi we know that team order are legal we would be expecting them any moment in case like this but they are suppose to be banned and that's what is causing all this. To me a driver is an employee of the team and have to obey and do what is best for the team, but rules says somethng different to this and that is why you see people lying to hide what they are doing.

Yeah I can see where you are coming from. But I reckon most team at the top will use some kind of team orders, indirectly, through out the season. The only problem with Mclaren is that Ron Dennis got a big mouth to admit using team orders, and the media makes a big deal out of that. He had to choose between a double time world champion or a super rookie, and he chose the double world champion because experience means a lot at Monaco. No doubt the rules say you cannot manipulate the race, but it is not exactly manipulating. It is just that you give one driver a more favourable race strategy, that is not manipulating in my opinion. By the way, I would admit to being a bit biased as I'm a Mclaren fan who hasn't won any constructor title in many many years already lol.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

At the end of the day, all Ron did was tell his drivers to hold station, and this is something we've seen a million times from various teams, in various seasons of F1.

I genuinely believe Ron would've done the same thing even if Lewis was in front, and Alonso 2nd.

But we've learnt already that if there is even the slightest hint that Alonso has preferential treatment at mclaren, the British media go through the roof

[Sato 0]

Admit it Fernando, Lewis had your measure pure and simple.

:lol: :lol:

I hope you don't really think that. 18 of the 20 fastest laps are Alonso's.. and he got a lead of 13 seconds before really cruising.

And after his first stop, he was 1 tenth of Lewis' pace... Like he was going to make up the gap going 1 tenth a lap faster.

[Quiet One 15]

I think what confuses us all is the thin line between team TACTICS and team ORDERS. If Lewis ended up behind Alonso because of team tactics, then there is nothing more to add. He qualified second, que got the worst strategy, he ended up second. End of story. If it was because of team orders, then it was illegal and "it was worse than a crime, it was a blunder"

As long as some of us see this as mere tactics and others see it as orders, we will never agree...

But, as Mike said, sometimes it's fun to be a fanatic!

Geez, it was a cathartical experience for me! I can tell how much influence our own mood has when reasoning this kind of arguments...scary!

[cavallino 2]

18 of the 20 fastest laps are Alonso's.. and he got a lead of 13 seconds before really cruising.

Were they? 8 of the first 10 were, except that all of them were set after lap 41, well after moRon had given his orders. If Alonso was so fast, why did he have to go on the radio and ask moRon to tell Lewis to slow down? Also Alonso's best laps were put in on a near empty car. Lewis never had a near empty car in the entire race. I am prepared to admit that Alonso was probably faster on race pace overall, not nearly as much as some Lewis haters and Alonso worshippers would like to bleive. However you don't need to be fastest to winm, you have to set the fastest qualifying lap, which Lewis did if you look at fuel adjusted times, make a good start, which he couldn't since moRon told him to hold up Massa at the start.

And Alonso was 2.9 and 2.6 seconds behind at the first and second stops, there is a good chance he would have made a fight out of it if he had been allowed to.

[cavallino 2]

I think what confuses us all is the thin line between team TACTICS and team ORDERS. If Lewis ended up behind Alonso because of team tactics, then there is nothing more to add. He qualified second, que got the worst strategy, he ended up second. End of story. If it was because of team orders, then it was illegal and "it was worse than a crime, it was a blunder"

As long as some of us see this as mere tactics and others see it as orders, we will never agree...

But, as Mike said, sometimes it's fun to be a fanatic!

Geez, it was a cathartical experience for me! I can tell how much influence our own mood has when reasoning this kind of arguments...scary!

No, that's not the point. Noone is alleging that Mclaren should be punished, that's ridiculous. It would be great irony, and well deserved, but still ridiculous. What people do question is why Mcalren who claim to treat their drivers equally ( :lol: err where was I?), forced the driver who has been fastest for the past two races and was ahead in Australia before team orders intervened and was leading the championship on merit, forced him to run as a designated number 2 in qualifying and the race.