F1 Update: Indianapolis Gives Up On Usgp

[Eric 0]

I wasn't a really big fan of indianapolis anyhow, it was such a danegrous track, Ralf Schumacher's 2 huge shunts and the first corner pile-up last year proved this.

Danger's part of the sport's charm, IMO.

Of course, I guess if it was safer, drivers would drive balls-out again because they'd know they couldn't get hurt.

-Eric

[StoneIsland 0]

I wasn't a really big fan of indianapolis anyhow, it was such a danegrous track, Ralf Schumacher's 2 huge shunts and the first corner pile-up last year proved this.

I'm sorry, but is there a first corner out there that hasn't had a huge pile-up at one time or another? That's the problem with first corners: they're dangerous.

And Ralph? Well, let's just say if his last name was Smith, he might be making a name for himself in German Touring Cars right now. I think that a look at the physics of the thing will show that 1.) the banking isn't dangerous if you take any reasonable precautions, 2.) the smooth, concrete walls are safe, as long as they're not hit directly, because they allow the cars to bleed off speed. No, the real dangerous part of Schumacher's encounter with the walls, at least the second time, was how unconscionably long it took the SC and medical vehicle to get to him after the crash.

[DOF_power 0]

The question that should be in the back of your head should, where and for whom will hosting a F1 race work in the future? There are two, as I see them, choices.

1. Government subsidized races. The fascists in China are happy to oblige. I'm willing to bet that ticket sales are not close to recouping their costs. The governments of some other countries are happy to support a race, at least while times are good, though I wonder how much longer Malaysia is willing to foot the bill before they give up the ghost?

2. The vanity projects of oil billionaires. Who here really thinks that Bahrain is really on a sound financial footing? The only people really making money from that deal are Bernie and Eccelstone.

What race is going to be cut next? Is this all in the long-term interest of sport? Business is about making money, no doubt, but there is money now and there is money later. Is there going to be any money later if Bernie takes all the money now? Will there always be oil billionaires and government willing to write the big checks? As a F1 fan under the current regime I think you're going to have to hope so.

Ticket revenues are not why people put up with Bernie.

F1 is essentially cheap compared to the Olympics and World Cup, the only events with a bigger global audience. F1 puts you on the map, and therefor the benefits can be ~100 million+ per year.

Just compare the case of Montreal 1976 Olympics with Magny Cours.

Montreal still hasn't recovered it's investments, while Magny-Cours a forsaken place was put on the map and enjoyed a period of prosperity due to F1.

[SuperKimi 0]

Danger's part of the sport's charm, IMO.

Of course, I guess if it was safer, drivers would drive balls-out again because they'd know they couldn't get hurt.

-Eric

Yes but there comes a point where the charm goes and it just becomes bloody ridicolous on a circuit on that. I'd much rather see it on a circuit where there isn't a concrete walls inches away but where it is still fast. I reallly think they should improve the saftey features of 2 tracks right now, Montreal (Kubica's crash proved that) and America (huge crashes in the last year or so have proven that also)

I think i can say safety that people don't want to see huge crashes and drivers getting injured or worse.

I'm pretty suprised that we went back there again after the last 3 years huge crashes, and i know some of you will disagree with me greatly, but i am happy they are not going back there. It should strictly remain and Indycar and Nascar track, not an F1 danger ground.

That's my first rant here over with.

[YHR 0]

Ticket revenues are not why people put up with Bernie.

F1 is essentially cheap compared to the Olympics and World Cup, the only events with a bigger global audience. F1 puts you on the map, and therefor the benefits can be ~100 million+ per year.

Just compare the case of Montreal 1976 Olympics with Magny Cours.

Montreal still hasn't recovered it's investments, while Magny-Cours a forsaken place was put on the map and enjoyed a period of prosperity due to F1.

IF this was true don't you think Tony George would have paid 30 million to gain 100 million?????

Montreal is a poor example. Racketeering and organized crime made Montreal's Olympic build a disaster.

AS for Magny Cours. Aren't they "off" the map again. If it was such big benefit being "on the map", you think they would have found a way to keep the race. Bernie is asking for too much, and I believe the venues are not receiving fair value for what they pay.

I think the Canadian GP is as good as gone. No way will F1 keep coming with only one race it North American. What's the point. F1 is a European thing, and never did catch much mainstream media attention over here. Don't get me wrong there is an F1 following, but it is very small compared to main stream sports.

[Eric 0]

Yes but there comes a point where the charm goes and it just becomes bloody ridicolous on a circuit on that. I'd much rather see it on a circuit where there isn't a concrete walls inches away but where it is still fast. I reallly think they should improve the saftey features of 2 tracks right now, Montreal (Kubica's crash proved that) and America (huge crashes in the last year or so have proven that also)

I think i can say safety that people don't want to see huge crashes and drivers getting injured or worse.

I'm pretty suprised that we went back there again after the last 3 years huge crashes, and i know some of you will disagree with me greatly, but i am happy they are not going back there. It should strictly remain and Indycar and Nascar track, not an F1 danger ground.

That's my first rant here over with.

But Kubica lived, all the other drivers lived, yes, Kubica had to sit out a race and all, but the point is F1 is safe no matter where they race. I think it's a tad annoying, actually, when a driver has 1000000000000 feet of runoff room. You can have so many offs and still finish in the points.

Also, Indy doesn't have concrete walls where Ralfie crashed. It's actually a SAFER barrier (Steel and Foam something something), invented by the NASCAR people.

-Eric

[DOF_power 0]

IF this was true don't you think Tony George would have paid 30 million to gain 100 million?????

Montreal is a poor example. Racketeering and organized crime made Montreal's Olympic build a disaster.

AS for Magny Cours. Aren't they "off" the map again. If it was such big benefit being "on the map", you think they would have found a way to keep the race. Bernie is asking for too much, and I believe the venues are not receiving fair value for what they pay.

I think the Canadian GP is as good as gone. No way will F1 keep coming with only one race it North American. What's the point. F1 is a European thing, and never did catch much mainstream media attention over here. Don't get me wrong there is an F1 following, but it is very small compared to main stream sports.

You're comfusing subsidiesed tracks like China and Co. with the private held IMS of Tony George.

TG isn't getting 100+ millions per year, the city is (fancy downtown), and the

[Yoda McFly 1]

Also, Indy doesn't have concrete walls where Ralfie crashed. It's actually a SAFER barrier (Steel and Foam something something), invented by the NASCAR people.

-Eric

Actually, if you go back and watch the footage, you'll see that Ralfie impacted squarely on the concrete. The SAFER was installed in likely impact zones for the oval configuration; because F1 goes in the "wrong" direction, there's nothing but wall ...

I'll try to dig up some photos that illustrate it.

[pumpdoc 2]

Actually, if you go back and watch the footage, you'll see that Ralfie impacted squarely on the concrete. The SAFER was installed in likely impact zones for the oval configuration; because F1 goes in the "wrong" direction, there's nothing but wall ...

I'll try to dig up some photos that illustrate it.

Yup right on that, he just missed the SAFER wall.

[YHR 0]

You're comfusing subsidiesed tracks like China and Co. with the private held IMS of Tony George.

TG isn't getting 100+ millions per year, the city is (fancy downtown), and the

[lukeB 0]

If Bernie keeps going the way he is, F1 is going to be an 'Asian thing'

And as for this safety thing, it's all crap, kubica's crash was one of the biggest I've seen for a while, and will probably remain the biggest of this season. All these huge tarmac run off areas just mean drivers lose a few seconds for mistakes they should be punished with. They do nothing to help safety at all. If a car is flying towards a barrier on its side, tarmac wont do anything, gravel will slow the car right down and in most cases stop the car.

I will miss the USGP, it was something different.

[Quiet One 15]

If Bernie keeps going the way he is, F1 is going to be an 'Asian thing'

And is that a bad thing per se?

[DOF_power 0]

1. GP not coming to town will have no impact on the city of Indianapolis. TG will schedule something else in that day that will draw as many people as F1 did.

Yes it will have an impact.

[YHR 0]

Yes it will have an impact.

[pumpdoc 2]

Not quite sure what leads you to believe that F1 fans are somehow superior to other racing fans. More elitist maybe, but Billy Bob will spend just as much money on his wife and Kids at a Nascar event as any F1 fan does. I bet that if TG wanted to mend the the fence with CART he could hold a CART sanctioned event at the IMS Road course and Draw twice as many fans as F1 did.

Again I have no idea where you are pulling out these billion dollars payoffs from???? Must be reading Bernies literature.

How many Drivers in F1 are not European??????? Not many.

Look, I don't really care about what Bernie does, or what direction F1 takes. All I know is at a personal level it does not appeal to me anymore, and for that reason don't follow it as close as I used to. JV added a little bit of interest( from a Canadian perspective), but the F1 show itself has been dismal for years. Since Senna and Mansell the show has been B grade at best.

Those of you out of the states have no idea what NASCAR fans spend, been to both type of races over the years and I can tell you that BE only wish's that F1 fans spent the same dollars as the NASCAR fan spends.

[DOF_power 0]

Not quite sure what leads you to believe that F1 fans are somehow superior to other racing fans. More elitist maybe, but Billy Bob will spend just as much money on his wife and Kids at a Nascar event as any F1 fan does. I bet that if TG wanted to mend the the fence with CART he could hold a CART sanctioned event at the IMS Road course and Draw twice as many fans as F1 did.

Again I have no idea where you are pulling out these billion dollars payoffs from???? Must be reading Bernies literature.

How many Drivers in F1 are not European??????? Not many.

Look, I don't really care about what Bernie does, or what direction F1 takes. All I know is at a personal level it does not appeal to me anymore, and for that reason don't follow it as close as I used to. JV added a little bit of interest( from a Canadian perspective), but the F1 show itself has been dismal for years. Since Senna and Mansell the show has been B grade at best.

This is turning into a if (north) americans aren't here than it's euro thing, witch is wrong in many ways. F1 is simply the most internaional/global motor-sport competition in the world. It's also the most cutthroat. If NA drivers or teams can't make, it's their fault.

As for Billy Bob, he won't spend/contribute as much to the local buisness (of Indy) as an F1 fan.

For the show I pretty much agree. But than, I didn't banned the active ride cars and slicks witch took us here.

[DOF_power 0]

Those of you out of the states have no idea what NASCAR fans spend, been to both type of races over the years and I can tell you that BE only wish's that F1 fans spent the same dollars as the NASCAR fan spends.

On caps and shirts sure, but that's not what I was talking about.

[YHR 0]

This is turning into a if (north) americans aren't here than it's euro thing, witch is wrong in many ways. F1 is simply the most internaional/global motor-sport competition in the world. It's also the most cutthroat. If NA drivers or teams can't make, it's their fault.

As for Billy Bob, he won't spend/contribute as much to the local buisness (of Indy) as an F1 fan.

For the show I pretty much agree. But than, I didn't banned the active ride cars and slicks witch took us here.

You forgot to add most overly hyped.

Again, exactly why does an F1 fan spend more money then an American NASCAR fan?????? I think you underestimate the racing culture in America. There are billions of dollars being spent every year, and F1 has failed to gain a market share . I mean this in all seriousness, to the sports fan in America this loss of the American GP is a non event.

The car manufactures will now adjust their marketing stategy to make an impact on the North American racing fan, which F1 has failed to stimulate.

As far as the Euro thing I am just stating the obvious that the bulk of F1 engineering and driver selction is based in Europe. Show me anything that says this isn't true.

[StoneIsland 0]

As for Billy Bob, he won't spend/contribute as much to the local buisness (of Indy) as an F1 fan.

Would you people source your wild assertions, please?

From, "Formula One racing to return to Indianapolis next year"

Updated 8/18/2006 12:19 AM ET

By Curt Cavin, The Indianapolis Star

Of the three races at IMS, including the Indy Racing League's Indianapolis 500 and NASCAR's Allstate 400 at the Brickyard, the Grand Prix does the most to bolster the coffers of local businesses because a larger percentage of the fans are from out of town and most of the sponsors and teams are backed by significant expense accounts.

Now, note what it doesn't say. It doesn't say that the average F1 fan spends more or less than the average NASCAR fan. What it says is that people from out of town spend more money than people from in town, and that people are willing to spend more of other people's money than they are of their own.

Now, if you can offer some additional sourced evidence re: the buying power of the average motorsport fan, I'd be glad to hear it.

Otherwise, stfu.

[pumpdoc 2]

On caps and shirts sure, but that's not what I was talking about.

Again, you don't know of which you speak. Rooms, airfare, food, tranportation etc.........and this is every week at every track.

[DOF_power 0]

You forgot to add most overly hyped.

Nah, that's NASCAR and the Indy 500.

Again, exactly why does an F1 fan spend more money then an American NASCAR fan?????? I think you underestimate the racing culture in America. There are billions of dollars being spent every year, and F1 has failed to gain a market share . I mean this in all seriousness, to the sports fan in America this loss of the American GP is a non event.

From another point of view, the loss of US GP is a non-event for B.E. It is a big event financially for the city of Indy.

The car manufactures will now adjust their marketing stategy to make an impact on the North American racing fan, which F1 has failed to stimulate.

The manufacturers in F1 (minus Ferrari) already have big marketing/advertising budgets for the USA.

They'll adjust what ?!

They're constantly taking away market share from GM, Ford and Chrysler (for decades).

As far as the Euro thing I am just stating the obvious that the bulk of F1 engineering and driver selction is based in Europe. Show me anything that says this isn't true.

So what ?!

There are non-european drivers, car manufacturers, employees, sponsors, supliers, and GPs. And let's not forget the audience.

The problem is that american motor-sport teams are scared with the costs, learning curve and cutthroat competitivity of F1. The american manufacturers are broke, so F1 is a no no.

And american open wheel racing, and even road course racing is dead.

So what feeding series does America provide ?!

It's european manufacturers like BMW via Formula BMW USA that bother actually, not GM/Ford/Chrysler or Ganassi, Andretti, Penske, HMS.

[Silas Talbot 0]

There's an article out now how "Bernee wants a global championship, not just a European one." Which is just a way of defending the move of GPs to:

Baharian

Korea

Singapore

Abu Dhabi

India (At least this one is reasonable)

With no USGP, and soon no Canadian GP, they are going to have a global championship with no race in North America.

*Scoff*

Maybe all of us on the continent will one day be going to BEAUTIFUL MEXICO CITY to watch GP racing... *gag*

I think I'm going to try to make it to the Valencia or Singapore street races now..

[YHR 0]

Nah, that's NASCAR and the Indy 500.

From another point of view, the loss of US GP is a non-event for B.E. It is a big event financially for the city of Indy.

The manufacturers in F1 (minus Ferrari) already have big marketing/advertising budgets for the USA.

They'll adjust what ?!

They're constantly taking away market share from GM, Ford and Chrysler (for decades).

So what ?!

There are non-european drivers, car manufacturers, employees, sponsors, supliers, and GPs. And let's not forget the audience.

The problem is that american motor-sport teams are scared with the costs, learning curve and cutthroat competitivity of F1. The american manufacturers are broke, so F1 is a no no.

And american open wheel racing, and even road course racing is dead.

So what feeding series does America provide ?!

It's european manufacturers like BMW via Formula BMW USA that bother actually, not GM/Ford/Chrysler or Ganassi, Andretti, Penske, HMS.

America wants nothing to do with F1. Pretty much has always been that way. The rest is just spin doctoring. But IMHO America has just said no to F1. Like I mentioned last year. The mindset is fortress America.

[Silas Talbot 0]

America wants nothing to do with F1. Pretty much has always been that way. The rest is just spin doctoring. But IMHO America has just said no to F1. Like I mentioned last year. The mindset is fortress America.

There is something to be said that the manufacturers and engine producers want a U.S. presence, due to the fact that they sell a lot of product over here. But their discontet is not likely strong enough to make a difference in 2007-2010. I think in 2010 or 2011 we'll have a new GP here..

[Yoda McFly 1]

America wants nothing to do with F1. Pretty much has always been that way. The rest is just spin doctoring. But IMHO America has just said no to F1. Like I mentioned last year. The mindset is fortress America.

Fingers crossed that this doesn't end up double-tapping ...

Please don't make the mistake of believing that King George speaks for all (or even a majority) of US racing fans.