F1 Update: Indianapolis Gives Up On Usgp

[StoneIsland 0]

F1 UPDATE: Indianapolis Gives Up on USGP

Written by: Robin Miller Indianapolis, Ind.

[Kati 0]

I was really surprised with this. I thought it was just some thing to make pressure on Bernie but now it's over. Can't imagine how will b next season w/o Indy. :/ It's just so sad.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Now Eric must be really pi$$ed off now ! As you might've heard, most most members here did'nt like the Indy Motor Speedway at al becuase of it's un-F1-ism but there should be a replacement circuit for the USGP as I'd hate to see it go!

[Eric 0]

**** THEM ALL ****ING RETARDS GO **** YOURSELVES.

God damnit.

But I saw it coming.

Sh#t. Sh#t. and more Sh#t.

Champ Car, here I come!

-Eric

[Kati 0]

Now Eric must be really pi$$ed off now ! As you might've heard, most most members here did'nt like the Indy Motor Speedway at al becuase of it's un-F1-ism but there should be a replacement circuit for the USGP as I'd hate to see it go!

Yeah, but the fact it was a un-F1-ism Gp, made it unique and special, at least for me. I'll miss it a lot :/

[Eric 0]

And now for a more logical post.

I really think that Tony George needs his money to run the IRL, and it was impossible to put up the extra money for a grand prix that in the end wasn't doing as well as they would've liked. You can get 400,000 to the Indy 500 and NASCAR race there, but you can only get 80,000 to the grand prix, and they were charging similar prices to Indy and NASCAR from what I understand, so it just wasn't working.

Unfortunately, I think the USGP is really over. Say whatever you want, I don't see one coming any time soon. If this one wasn't important enough, why would any other one be?

I think that in the end, the USA wasn't an important enough market for them. We have the money, but we don't spend it on F1, because our interests are elsewhere right now. American teams and drivers and races could help, but in the end, the snobbish attitude and prejudice the good ol' boys have to face is just not helping. Also, American teenagers are a huge market here. The people into F1 here are mostly adults (I'm pretty young for an American fan), and they are more reasonable about their spending, as where teenagers spend their parents' money like crazy. I think that since the sport takes a lot of time to understand and a lot of thought to find entertaining, it just doesn't fit the American teenager culture. Also, brand recognition for the American teenagers isn't really helping. Other than Red Bull, I don't really see any American-teenager aimed products. And America has it's own home-grown energy drinks like Monster, SoBe Adrenaline Rush, amp, etc. that I see a lot more than Red Bull.

I just don't think that at this time it's really possible.

-Eric

[elgo 1]

Not a great loss...

On the other hand it was one of those different GPs,so it's bad news imo.

US GP, R.I.P.

[Eric 0]

It's personal now.

Saw this on another forum:

"We didn't reach an agreement. Let's see if we miss America," he said.

That's from Bernie.

It's on, now, Bernard.

-Eric

[c21 0]

Bring on Laguna Seca!

[Eric 0]

Bring on Laguna Seca!

If Indy can't afford a race, Laguna Seca can't.

And that's THEE huge issue right now. We don't have an oil billionaires to pay for our races.

-Eric

[Yoda McFly 1]

If Indy can't afford a race, Laguna Seca can't.

And that's THEE huge issue right now. We don't have an oil billionaires to pay for our races.

-Eric

Plus, we're a non-tobacco country, and I'm sure that figures in somehow, as much as everyone wants to deny it.

Plus, Laguna's on the short side, and is it FIA legal? 'Course, ALMS and A1 run there, so maybe. That said, I'd love to see it, because that's within road-trip range for me.

Road America would be awesome, but, much like Laguna and Magny Cours, it's too far out in the middle of nowhere. Then there's Miller Park in Salt Lake City, but who the hell wants to go to Salt Lake City?

As much as I can't stand the Indy road course, and as happy as I am to see King George losing something, there just really aren't a whole lot of suitable venues for a USGP. Sebring might be interesting. Maybe VIR, if they run the full course, although, again, it may not meet FIA regs, and it's almost certainly too far in the boonies.

That actually seems to be one of the big stumbling blocks these days, how far from a metro area the facility is located, and how many sheep cattle lemmings sardines race fans you can stuff into it. That's an additional problem with all of the courses I've mentioned above, none have tons of grandstands ... Of course, grandstands can be built...

Simple fact is, if Bernie wanted to be here, he'd find a way and a venue ...

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Eric 0]

Plus, we're a non-tobacco country, and I'm sure that figures in somehow, as much as everyone wants to deny it.

Plus, Laguna's on the short side, and is it FIA legal? 'Course, ALMS and A1 run there, so maybe. That said, I'd love to see it, because that's within road-trip range for me.

Road America would be awesome, but, much like Laguna and Magny Cours, it's too far out in the middle of nowhere. Then there's Miller Park in Salt Lake City, but who the hell wants to go to Salt Lake City?

As much as I can't stand the Indy road course, and as happy as I am to see King George losing something, there just really aren't a whole lot of suitable venues for a USGP. Sebring might be interesting. Maybe VIR, if they run the full course, although, again, it may not meet FIA regs, and it's almost certainly too far in the boonies.

That actually seems to be one of the big stumbling blocks these days, how far from a metro area the facility is located, and how many sheep cattle lemmings sardines race fans you can stuff into it. That's an additional problem with all of the courses I've mentioned above, none have tons of grandstands ... Of course, grandstands can be built...

Simple fact is, if Bernie wanted to be here, he'd find a way and a venue ...

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

A street race is the only option for Bernie, it would seem. And like I said in my other post (the longer one), it does make sense for Bernie to have no business here. It's just, disappointing.

-Eric

[DOF_power 0]

The City and TG should have meat with BE and reach an agreement.

Fans will lose, and the city of Indianapolis will lose 100 millions (up to maybe even 300 million). F1 fans spend more money than the Indy 500 and NASCAR/400 fans combined.

Good luck with Moto GP, NASCAR, the subsidiesed injury league, whatever.

[Yoda McFly 1]

So, I got to thinking ... (DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!)

This is based on the track map published on the VIR website ... This new "patriot" course in the middle allows for the North and South courses to be tied together in a manner different from (and longer than) the Full course ... Thoughts?

I know, "put down the crack pipe." A man can dream, can't he?

Edit 1: One potential problem I see with this (or anything at VIR) is the back straight. I'm not sure how long it is, but I know the FIA has a maximum length (which is why there are the emasculating chicanes on the Hunaudi

[Eric 0]

The City and TG should have meat with BE and reach an agreement.

Fans will lose, and the city of Indianapolis will lose 100 millions (up to maybe even 300 million). F1 fans spend more money than the Indy 500 and NASCAR/400 fans combined.

Good luck with Moto GP, NASCAR, the subsidiesed injury league, whatever.

F1 fans world-wide do, yes, but not in America, because there's a lot less.

Indy's other races bring in more money than F1 does to the city of Indianapolis, sorry to say.

The government shouldn't have to be a part of this. The charges should be low enough so that the government doesn't have to be involved. The city itself doesn't make 100 million, it makes taxes off of that money. The taxes they make and the money they'd give to save the race probably wasn't worth it.

-Eric

[DOF_power 0]

F1 fans world-wide do, yes, but not in America, because there's a lot less.

Indy's other races bring in more money than F1 does to the city of Indianapolis, sorry to say.

The government shouldn't have to be a part of this. The charges should be low enough so that the government doesn't have to be involved. The city itself doesn't make 100 million, it makes taxes off of that money. The taxes they make and the money they'd give to save the race probably wasn't worth it.

-Eric

Nope, because they don't spend as much in the fancy downtown. The Indy 500 and Brick 400 bring combined less money to the city than F1, or exposure for that matter. They do bring money to the IMS, as opposed to F1.

But when it comes to the higher end bars, hotels, restaurants, airport, the F1 crowd rules.

Sorry Eric you're just wrong.

As for the government, this is GP racing.

[Yoda McFly 1]

F1 fans world-wide do, yes, but not in America, because there's a lot less.

Indy's other races bring in more money than F1 does to the city of Indianapolis, sorry to say.

The government shouldn't have to be a part of this. The charges should be low enough so that the government doesn't have to be involved. The city itself doesn't make 100 million, it makes taxes off of that money. The taxes they make and the money they'd give to save the race probably wasn't worth it.

-Eric

It's also a matter of scale. In the oval configuration, they can seat 250,000, plus the infield; in the heyday of the 500, they regularly sold out. I'm not sure of current attendance numbers, and I'm too lazy to go look it up right now, but I'd wager on it still being in the 200k range. It's certainly the only IRL race that King George makes money on. For the Brickyard 400, I'm pretty sure they're still near capacity.

For the road course configuration, I think the number is more like 85,000, with basically no infield seating ... And I know they haven't sold out the last few years. "Michelin-gate" damaged the race, plus a number of other factors that relate to how American "sports fans" think, act and spend. Add to that how close the F1 race is on the calendar to the 500, and it's another ding to the event's chances.

Any way around it, the city, county and state shouldn't have to pay to make sure the race goes off; it should stand or fall on its own commercial merits. Yes, the influx of fans for a race helps the businesses by increased sales, and the city and state by taxes on those sales, but, again, just from the scale, the F1 race is nothing next to the oval races.

If King George succeeds in bringing MotoGP there, I can guarantee that it won't be held in June.

After rereading the above a couple of times, I realize that there might be something to add that may help our non-North American friends to understand part of the issue. There are certain sporting events here that are always watched by huge numbers, even people that aren't fans of that particular sport. In terms of Television Ratings (and ticket sales), Golf's "The Masters", Tennis' U.S. Open, the Indy 500, the Daytona 500, football's Super Bowl, the nine-thousand college football "Bowl" games on New Year's Day, and maybe a couple of others that I've forgotten historically draw huge numbers of ticket sales and television ratings, even among people that know nothing of golf, tennis, motor racing or football. I'm sure you've heard of the "Super Bowl" party? The vast majority of American "sports fans" know nothing of open-wheel racing, knew nothing of the split, and continue to tune in to one race per year... (The 500 is becoming a bad example, as more and more "fans" are dropping off).

F1 has never had that kind of draw, here. By the very nature of the sport, it takes more than one race a year to get people to care. Add to that the absolutely dreadful coverage of the race that we had for the first couple of years, brought about by corporate nepotism that's a subject for a different rant. Suffice it to say that the commentators didn't even know the drivers' names and generally couldn't even figure out the liveries of the different cars. I think one quote went something along the lines of "and there's Nick 'Hid-fold' in the ... uhh ... blue car..."

No one knows how to market F1 to the non-fans in this country. The fans here are a small enough market that Bernie really doesn't care, and until someone figures out a way to sell the sport effectively to non-fans, the US will continue to be a "niche" market...

Funny, I experience some of the same issues here with fencing. I seem to like obscure sports.

Edit: Fixed a couple of minor spelling bugs that Fx didn't notice.

[pumpdoc 2]

Can't add much except that I hope King Tony steps in front of an 18-wheeler and soon.

Look out our Canadian friends to the north, your next on Bernies hit list.....................

Long Beach told the F1 powers to be a long time ago because of the outragous money that they wanted for the race up front with only ticket revenues going to the promoter(Pook) to go fly a kite, pound sand etc.

[tifosi too! 0]

For me it's really sad news both for Indy and Magny( and Imola and A1 Ring... ). I guess the history of the tracks with GP's held there for decades in some cases and with all the great drivers having raced on them really means something! Changes are always good but F1 and history are closely related and associated! Most people would gladly give up 10 of the current races just to get to see F1 cars through the old Nurburgring again or the old Monza like in the -historic- now footages of Fangio and Clark! Shiny new tracks do have a place in the calendar but if F1 keeps driving itself away from its history, then is bound to lose some glamour- in my perception of it though! Maybe Bernie knows best

[StoneIsland 0]

It's also a matter of scale. In the oval configuration, they can seat 250,000, plus the infield; in the heyday of the 500, they regularly sold out. I'm not sure of current attendance numbers, and I'm too lazy to go look it up right now, but I'd wager on it still being in the 200k range. It's certainly the only IRL race that King George makes money on. For the Brickyard 400, I'm pretty sure they're still near capacity.

For the road course configuration, I think the number is more like 85,000, with basically no infield seating ... And I know they haven't sold out the last few years. "Michelin-gate" damaged the race, plus a number of other factors that relate to how American "sports fans" think, act and spend. Add to that how close the F1 race is on the calendar to the 500, and it's another ding to the event's chances.

IMS has a maximum capacity of 257,325. Counting the infield, track workers, journalists, and such, "that brings the estimated number of people who could be on site Sunday, if the race sells out, to 267,925."

[Quiet One 15]

Personally, I resent the loss of Magny Cours more than Indy. Not because the track itself, but I think France has always been connected to F1, so it's weird to have a season without a French GP.

Bernie has no sympathy for America, and America has no sympathy for F1 (not enough to make it worth it, at least to Bernie's greedy eyes). America should have a GP. But it should be regarded as a niche sport. Trying to act as if it is a massive sport is obviously a waste of money. A place with a smaller venue, with a smaller inversion might give an American GP the stability it needs to develope a bigger fan base iin the future.

[whiskee 0]

Makes me sad, I liked Indy. I hope they return to US whether it's a street circuit or whatever.

Well folks, suddenly Canada seems like a very far away place to go for just one GP even if it attracts about the biggest audience in the calendar.

But for Bernie it's business and he goes where the money goes. Soon we will have the majority of the races at unknown locations in Asia, in the backyard of some rich oil prophet. I'm not very positive that we could see old classic tracks returning to the calendar.

Bye bye Indy

[Autumnpuma 0]

IMS has a maximum capacity of 257,325. Counting the infield, track workers, journalists, and such, "that brings the estimated number of people who could be on site Sunday, if the race sells out, to 267,925."

Master Yoda was estimating the number of seats available for the USGP...on the road course. The article you link talks about the Indy 500...on the oval. Two different attendance numbers, but the relevant one to this thread would seem to be the USGP road course numbers, no?

[Eric 0]

Master Yoda was estimating the number of seats available for the USGP...on the road course. The article you link talks about the Indy 500...on the oval. Two different attendance numbers, but the relevant one to this thread would seem to be the USGP road course numbers, no?

The article does talk about the I500, yes, but, either I'm an insane retard with brain damage or 257,000 and change is not the number of seats on the oval. It's between 300,000-400,000. It was either 320,000 or 360,000.

-Eric

Upon further review, that is the seating capacity, excluding infield capacity. Sorry if that was specified. With the infield, it is 400k.

[stopkidding 0]

sad sad day for F1. the "world championship" has lost some of its flavour. I really hope F1 breaks into the US market, its such a shame really