Bernie Says Lights On! Or It's Lights Out For Oz

[Rainmaster 7]

Why? Is there one in Africa? Much more people leave there than Down under

Sorry for not listing all the places F1 needs to go to be considered a world championship. We are talking about Australia. You are right it could do with one in Africa as well, and Russia, and USA and so on...

[Eric 0]

Sorry for not listing all the places F1 needs to go to be considered a world championship. We are talking about Australia. You are right it could do with one in Africa as well, and Russia, and USA and so on...

Iraq, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Djibouti, Tanzania, Antarctica, and Ethiopia all need to be considered legitimate contenders if they are willing to put up a start time that is friendly for the Europeans.

[goferrarigo 0]

Firstly we have discussed this topic tons of times, and i am sure we will discuss in again, mostlty at the end of this season... But for Bernie he needs to make room for other countries as the teams don't want more than 17/18 races... So he needs to get some artifical 'exicement' into the race, rather than just being the season opener.

And to answer Steve, You maybe willing to get up, but the amount of 'real' F1 fans all over the world is less, most fans are casual (would like to say they 'real') and would not get up at early in the morning for it. And for the advertising revenue he needs more people to watch it otherwise he makes a bigger loss. The Night race idea helps him two fold, one better time for EU and more 'exictement' in the race...

the World arguement, according to be doesn't exist as 8-9 (depends on counting Turkey) races this season are outside Europe. With Korea, Saudi Arabia, India joining in soon. This makes almost more than half outside Europe..

[Eric 0]

How does the night make it more exciting? Ooh it's dark outside how exciting I've never seen it so dark outside wow.

I've seen 100s of races at night. Literally. No different from races at day.

Anyway, the whole advertising thing answers your question, Yoda. SPEED TV shows public service anouncements. Not exactly a huge market Bernie's trying to win, so he doesn't give a damn about you on the West Coast. Which is stupid, since California has more F1 fans than the entire East Coast.

[goferrarigo 0]

How does the night make it more exciting? Ooh it's dark outside how exciting I've never seen it so dark outside wow.

I've seen 100s of races at night. Literally. No different from races at day.

For average European fans/ casual watchers, a night race is quite an advertising point.... Since your in America, you have quite a few night races so its normal, but elsewhere it's not. Also there is a greater percieved risk of there being less visibility and thus more crashes and unpredicability...

[Yoda McFly 1]

How does the night make it more exciting? Ooh it's dark outside how exciting I've never seen it so dark outside wow.

I've seen 100s of races at night. Literally. No different from races at day.

The only night racing I find "more entertaining" than "normal" racing is endurance racing ...

And I've noticed one difference between night races and day races, but only when actually at the venue. It's generally cooler, sometimes outright cold...

Anyway, the whole advertising thing answers your question, Yoda. SPEED TV shows public service anouncements. Not exactly a huge market Bernie's trying to win, so he doesn't give a damn about you on the West Coast. Which is stupid, since California has more F1 fans than the entire East Coast.

I know. I just like to bitch. Actually, the loss of Oz and other Pacific Rim races as day races hurts me twice ... You see, they're the only ones that happen at a decent time for us Left Coasters; usually around 2100 on Saturday, which, as long as one stays sober enough to remember the race, makes it perfect. (If we ever meet in person, remind me to tell you the story of the night JV failed to beat Damon for the '96 championship at Suzuka. One hell of a party... ).

For average European fans/ casual watchers, a night race is quite an advertising point.... Since your in America, you have quite a few night races so its normal, but elsewhere it's not. Also there is a greater percieved risk of there being less visibility and thus more crashes and unpredicability...

I can't figure out a way to word this that doesn't sound sarcastic, so know that it's an honest question... Have you actually seen one of our "night" races?

Unless someone proposes to fit F1 cars with headlights and taillights, there's no additional risk, because the billions and billions of candlepower in floodlights make it nearly as bright as day ... And if there happens to be a dark patch, someone will scream bloody murder about the safety aspect since the cars have no lights on-board ... Thereby mooting the entire "extra unpredictability" issue ... Although from the drivers' standpoint, "floodlight-glare" can be worse than "low-sun-glare" because you get it at all points around the track, but the lights are typically high enough, and/or pointed in such a way as to minimize it.

Europe should watch more non-endurance night racing before they go screaming that this is a Good Thing.™

[Yoda McFly 1]

grr ... accidental double-tap; mods, feel free to delete this one since I don't seem to have that power.

[HandyNZL 1]

The only thing fancy about Singapore...if it happens as I don't think it's been signed off yet, has it?...is that we'll see nice city shots of Singapore at night. Yes the track will be cooler, so rubber-grip will be totally different than to at day...so does this mean that practise and qually is going to be at night too to equal track conditions for the race?

[Yoda McFly 1]

The only thing fancy about Singapore...if it happens as I don't think it's been signed off yet, has it?...is that we'll see nice city shots of Singapore at night. Yes the track will be cooler, so rubber-grip will be totally different than to at day...so does this mean that practise and qually is going to be at night too to equal track conditions for the race?

They would have to be .... but they won't.

[HandyNZL 1]

Of course not...Bernie hadn't thought that far ahead....he hasn't got Gordon Murray thinking for him anymore

[dribbler 6]

So F1 lost you as a fan but gained millions around the world so Bernie is a net winner. I've been watching F1 for over 20 years now and, although my enthusiasm has waned over the years I'm still addicted. I wont get up in the middle of the night to watch the Aussie GP because I can watch a recording of the race at a more convenient time later. If I could watch the race live without having to get up in the middle of the night I would be all for that.

Would I miss the Aussie GP? No! Is it a special GP like Monaco, Spa, Monza? No! Is the track eulogised like Suzuka, Spa, Monaco? No! The only distinguishing factor of the race is that it starts in the middle of the night. Why should the start of an F1 season be in the middle of the night for the majority of it's viewers and advertisers.

Sorry, I don't see the point of this race so cant sympathise with those that would mourn it's demise.

Do you honestly get more of a tingle watching a race at a historical track like Spa or Monaco, than at Melbourne? I think they are all special, or rather i don't feel more excited watching a race at Spa than i do watching one at Melbourne. I think drivers feel more excited, but i don't.

So, as a spectator, it comes down to the visual spectacle. Melbourne is normally hot and sunny, that makes me feel good. It is in a country that is full of hope and development. That makes me feel good too. I see no shortage of great fast corners to appreciate the cars either.

And to answer Steve, You maybe willing to get up, but the amount of 'real' F1 fans all over the world is less, most fans are casual (would like to say they 'real') and would not get up at early in the morning for it. And for the advertising revenue he needs more people to watch it otherwise he makes a bigger loss. The Night race idea helps him two fold, one better time for EU and more 'exictement' in the race...

Sure, AJ, i appreciate that we, the people who watch it live, are in a minority but that doesn't mean that people do not watch it later in the day so i do not see where the loss of advertising revenue comes from.

How does the night make it more exciting? Ooh it's dark outside how exciting I've never seen it so dark outside wow.

Seriously though, i think we should all see how Singapore pans out first before making decisions on Australia. I guess the only good thing about a night race is that it makes spying easier.

[B.P. 0]

A lot of emotion in this thread , but this post sums it up for me. It's all about economics, sentiment has no place in F1 and never will - so get with the programme guys as F1 would not be the spectacle it is without Mr Ecclestone's drive and ambition.

bulls##t, F1 is not a spectacle unless you are at the track. The majority of fans are interested in the racing not the glamour. Bernie is a penny pinching Mr Crabbes with no real interest in the sport and fans.

[DOF_power 0]

MotoGP did well.

[DOF_power 0]

bulls##t, F1 is not a spectacle unless you are at the track. The majority of fans are interested in the racing not the glamour. Bernie is a penny pinching Mr Crabbes with no real interest in the sport and fans.

On the contrary most fans are not interested in racing (whatever that means), they're interested in worshiping their God/hero/titan driver and/or team (like Ferrari).

[B.P. 0]

Here's my idea, Bernie: if the damn races were entertaining, people would watch them at any time. If your biggest fanbase won't wake up in the middle of the night to watch your race, I think you can figure out what the problem is.

Nice points Eric, my thoughts exactly....

[DOF_power 0]

It doesn't matter so much if the races are entertaining.

[B.P. 0]

On the contrary most fans are not interested in racing (whatever that means), they're interested in worshiping their God/hero/titan driver and/or team (like Ferrari).

Yep your probably right in that aspect, but I was referring to the "spectacle" .

[B.P. 0]

It doesn't matter so much if the races are entertaining.

So you wouldn't be more interested in F1 if there were more than two teams fighting for wins?

[pabloh20 1]

Do you honestly get more of a tingle watching a race at a historical track like Spa or Monaco, than at Melbourne? I think they are all special, or rather i don't feel more excited watching a race at Spa than i do watching one at Melbourne. I think drivers feel more excited, but i don't.

So, as a spectator, it comes down to the visual spectacle. Melbourne is normally hot and sunny, that makes me feel good. It is in a country that is full of hope and development. That makes me feel good too. I see no shortage of great fast corners to appreciate the cars either.

Well, I actually get more excited when Spa comes around, but there is no rational reason why. It's purely because of Eau Rouge, but these days it probably isn't quite as challenging as it once was. However, I still like it and Kimi has kept it special in my mind! I dread the Monaco race. I don't mind the build up, practices, scenery, etc, etc, but I always dread the actual race.

You are completely right, though. Aside from a personal favourite or dread, I don't get any more or less excited about the majority of races. I do like the Australian Grand Prix, though. Maybe it's for the reasons you state, I have never really thought about

Seriously though, i think we should all see how Singapore pans out first before making decisions on Australia. I guess the only good thing about a night race is that it makes spying easier.

Possibly. However, watching some of the MotoGP race, I don't think it's going to make much difference to TV viewers.

bulls##t, F1 is not a spectacle unless you are at the track. The majority of fans are interested in the racing not the glamour. Bernie is a penny pinching Mr Crabbes with no real interest in the sport and fans.

Indeed. Certainly with regards to a night race, the spectacle is probably more pronounced if you are actually there. Although there is nothing wrong with the glamour, either!

MotoGP did well.

In what way?

On the contrary most fans are not interested in racing (whatever that means), they're interested in worshiping their God/hero/titan driver and/or team (like Ferrari).

Well, I don't know for certain, but I imagine there would be fairly even splits, to be honest.

[Fed up 0]

Do you honestly get more of a tingle watching a race at a historical track like Spa or Monaco, than at Melbourne? I think they are all special, or rather i don't feel more excited watching a race at Spa than i do watching one at Melbourne. I think drivers feel more excited, but i don't.

So, as a spectator, it comes down to the visual spectacle. Melbourne is normally hot and sunny, that makes me feel good. It is in a country that is full of hope and development. That makes me feel good too. I see no shortage of great fast corners to appreciate the cars either.

I don't get a tingle for any of the historic tracks apart from Monaco perhaps. F1 tracks are boring and the races are more of a procession and, as a result tedious and repetitive. My point is that Melbourne has no divine right to host a GP than the likes of Kylami, Argentina (i'm sure they had a GP once upon a time) India or wherever.

F1 is a sport, but more importantly, a business. If you were a corporate looking to advertise your product worldwide west is an affluent and very important market. If we are asleep we can't be enticed to buy a product through the media of advertising, this will translate into lower advertising revenue for the TV networks and Bernie. If the race could be beamed live into 'crucial' markets at peak times advertising revenue can be maximised.

The first race of the F1 season is of huge importance and an opportunity to maximise revenue and exposure. If we, in the west, are asleep what good is that. If an F1 addict like myself cant be bothered getting up for the Aussie GP do you think the legions of Lewis & Nando fans (mainly new to F1) will do so? No!

Sometimes progress is achieved by embracing change. If the Aussie GP was held at night it would kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. I guess it comes down to how much the Aussies want a GP

EDIT: For me, F1 is best viewed on TV. I've been to a race once at Silverstone and vowed to never do it again. I prefer to watch the GP on the TV with my laptop at hand to view live timing and such like

[pabloh20 1]

I don't get a tingle for any of the historic tracks apart from Monaco perhaps. F1 tracks are boring and the races are more of a procession and, as a result tedious and repetitive. My point is that Melbourne has no divine right to host a GP than the likes of Kylami, Argentina (i'm sure they had a GP once upon a time) India or wherever.

F1 is a sport, but more importantly, a business. If you were a corporate looking to advertise your product worldwide west is an affluent and very important market. If we are asleep we can't be enticed to buy a product through the media of advertising, this will translate into lower advertising revenue for the TV networks and Bernie. If the race could be beamed live into 'crucial' markets at peak times advertising revenue can be maximised.

The first race of the F1 season is of huge importance and an opportunity to maximise revenue and exposure. If we, in the west, are asleep what good is that. If an F1 addict like myself cant be bothered getting up for the Aussie GP do you think the legions of Lewis & Nando fans (mainly new to F1) will do so? No!

Sometimes progress is achieved by embracing change. If the Aussie GP was held at night it would kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. I guess it comes down to how much the Aussies want a GP

The thing is, as Steve said, not only is the Aussie GP shown live, it's then repeated at a more sociable hour. Surely that would be enticing potentially more people in Bernie's target market?

[Fed up 0]

The thing is, as Steve said, not only is the Aussie GP shown live, it's then repeated at a more sociable hour. Surely that would be enticing potentially more people in Bernie's target market?

Using that argument you could hold a GP wherever and at whatever time as long as it is repeated at a more sociable hour. How many don't bother to watch the recorded show when the result is relayed hours before hand. Maximum exposure will only be achieved if the race is shown live at 'peak' viewing time.

Bernie is in a position where he can dictate the odds. There are so many countries vying for GP at Bernie terms that it doesn't make sense to compromise on races such as Melbourne which are not 'special' - In fact, Melbourne could turn itself into a special GP by hosting a night race.

[pabloh20 1]

Using that argument you could hold a GP wherever and at whatever time as long as it is repeated at a more sociable hour. How many don't bother to watch the recorded show when the result is relayed hours before hand. Maximum exposure will only be achieved if the race is shown live at 'peak' viewing time.

Bernie is in a position where he can dictate the odds. There are so many countries vying for GP at Bernie terms that it doesn't make sense to compromise on races such as Melbourne which are not 'special' - In fact, Melbourne could turn itself into a special GP by hosting a night race.

Well, if a person is an F1 fan, then I cannot imagine them not watching either the race live or the repeated show. If a person is only a casual fan, I cannot imagine it would make much difference if the race was live or not, as long as it was on at a similar time to usual, which it normally is. And the time a race is on in the UK is not a peak viewing time anyway, for a Sunday. I don't know other European countries Sunday viewing habits, so I don't know if it's peak time there or not.

I guess it depends on what Bernie is trying to achieve and what he thinks is the target audience. However for such a niche sport as F1, I can't see the odd race being shown at inconvenient hours for Europe, making a major difference.

With regards to the night race, unless the F1 night race is totally different to the USA perspectives I have heard, or indeed the MotoGP night race that I saw some of, then it won't make a blind bit of difference to tv viewers. It will be a novelty thing for a few races and then it will be back to normal.

[goferrarigo 0]

The only night racing I find "more entertaining" than "normal" racing is endurance racing ...

And I've noticed one difference between night races and day races, but only when actually at the venue. It's generally cooler, sometimes outright cold...

I can't figure out a way to word this that doesn't sound sarcastic, so know that it's an honest question... Have you actually seen one of our "night" races?

Unless someone proposes to fit F1 cars with headlights and taillights, there's no additional risk, because the billions and billions of candlepower in floodlights make it nearly as bright as day ... And if there happens to be a dark patch, someone will scream bloody murder about the safety aspect since the cars have no lights on-board ... Thereby mooting the entire "extra unpredictability" issue ... Although from the drivers' standpoint, "floodlight-glare" can be worse than "low-sun-glare" because you get it at all points around the track, but the lights are typically high enough, and/or pointed in such a way as to minimize it.

Europe should watch more non-endurance night racing before they go screaming that this is a Good Thing.

[Wez 0]

I watched the Moto GP last night and it was pretty cool, except for some of the onboard shots where the lights are quite distracting.

Quick question though, why is it that both the Qatar MotoGP & the F1 in singapore are late in the nite (CET) and not late afternoon?

The only reason I can think of is that the light during twilight is a bit poor?

As for the Australian GP, I just find it sad that the pr!ck Bernie's greed seems to win instead of the good of the sport all the time.

All the traditional tracks with hardcore F1 fans like Australia, South Africa, Argentina are getting dropped for places with part time supporters like Bahrain, Malaysia, Turkey and soon Russia. COMMON!