33 replies to this topic

[rodders47]

why does M.S. get to test this years car before returning to F1  when the rookie, Jaime Alguersuari. had never driven an F1 car and goes in blind for his first race?

[dribbler]

The FIA haven't said yes yet. Did STR ask whether Jaime could test? If they did and the FIA said no, that would be blatantly unfair. As it is, at the moment, nothing is unfair.

On principal, I do not agree that Michael should be able to test.

[Insider]

rodders47, on 01 August 2009 - 06:40 AM, said:

why does M.S. get to test this years car before returning to F1  when the rookie, Jaime Alguersuari. had never driven an F1 car and goes in blind for his first race?

Because the world isn't fair? Or, Ferrari always get what they want?  Or, STR won't say anything because they use Ferrari engines?  Schumacher is treated like a latter day God in F1 circles? Choose any four from four. Massa was the most vociferous of several drivers in criticising Jaime, [which I have to say was pathetic beyond words] and the safety issues raised by the rookie's outing last week.  I am a big fan of the young Spaniard - he seems to have the what it takes to get on. He did a great job last week.  So, Massa's horrific accident was most unfortunate but that's open c#ckpit motor racing for you.  Things happen. Michael may be a bit flabby and rusty and not driven in a race for three years but he has tested.  For me, it's just tough sh#t on Ferrari. No other member team would have been afforded the same facility by FOTA, mark my words and I see this as a black mark against the Association.  Whether STR did or did not make a request is irrelevant -  the rules are the rules and must be adhered to strictly.  I hope the FIA refuse for the sake of the continuance and right.

EDIT: Typo

Edited by Insider, 01 August 2009 - 07:49 AM.

[tifosi too!]

We are already having this conversation here !!

Like I said,

Quote

"STR replaced their driver on their own will and under their own terms.

Ferrari is doing it under extraordinary circumstances, because FM was injured during qualifying.
It's a last minute resort and since they bring a driver who has no knowledge of the 2009 F1 cars and they have no other suitable replacement, they should be allowed to provide him with the means to prepare himself."

It's simply not the same circumstances.
If FM was injured at his spare time, perhaps the FIA and FOTA could allow MS to test, but that wouldn't be fair to the rookies.
FM was injured during the qualifying session and it' s only ethical the team and MS are given a chance to prepare for putting another driver in FM's place.

If that's not logical for you, then ok!!

[wapi]

I would say that there really is safety issue with drivers being completetly new to the car and starting competition. Current rules do not allow in season testing, so nobody should get exception no matter how big celebrity he is, unless they all agree that single day of testing is acceptable in case of driver steping in. In which case Jaime and Romain should be entitled to have one before Valencia.

[Schumikonen]

tifosi too!, on 01 August 2009 - 08:34 AM, said:

We are already having this conversation here !!

Like I said,



It's simply not the same circumstances.
If FM was injured at his spare time, perhaps the FIA and FOTA could allow MS to test, but that wouldn't be fair to the rookies.
FM was injured during the qualifying session and it' s only ethical the team and MS are given a chance to prepare for putting another driver in FM's place.

If that's not logical for you, then ok!!

Don't worry, it's logical for me and that's enough.

[Schumikonen]

wapi, on 01 August 2009 - 08:42 AM, said:

I would say that there really is safety issue with drivers being completetly new to the car and starting competition. Current rules do not allow in season testing, so nobody should get exception no matter how big celebrity he is, unless they all agree that single day of testing is acceptable in case of driver steping in. In which case Jaime and Romain should be entitled to have one before Valencia.

Like you jusr read Celebrity have nothing to do with this test, if a team decided that they will be better with another driver then they know what they are doing, they oust a regular driver who in their opinion was not doing a good job to get anew one, why should they be given a test if they already think they will be better? in Ferrari case, they don't have any idea about how things will go with Schumi and the rest of the teams already agree to this test so there is no violation here, we are waiting for the FIA answer who has the last word on this, Ferrari did what they have to do and did by the rules, if you see any violation talk about it with the correspoonding authorities to get Ferrari penalized otherwise, case closed.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Insider, on 01 August 2009 - 07:42 AM, said:

I hope the FIA refuse for the sake of the continuance and right.

This is such a non-issue; Schui will go fast irrespective of whether he tests or not. I can't blame Ferrari asking, I would in their shoes.

F1 needs a good news story with teams departing, attendances down, sponsors lacking and all the recent crap/politics. Valencia especially with Alonso not there will be desparate for a reason to drag people in. Not surprised therefore that the teams should all agree.

[Rainmaster]

There is obviously a safety issue with the current testing regulations, a minor safety issue, but still an issue. Young/new drivers should be given an exemption to the rules; as should returning drivers who need time to re-learn the new cars, like Schumacher does.

AFAIK Schumacher has not been given permission by FOTA to test a current spec car (click). He has, however, tested a F2007 with slicks.

[YHR]

meanioni, on 01 August 2009 - 01:16 PM, said:

This is such a non-issue; Schui will go fast irrespective of whether he tests or not. I can't blame Ferrari asking, I would in their shoes.

F1 needs a good news story with teams departing, attendances down, sponsors lacking and all the recent crap/politics. Valencia especially with Alonso not there will be desparate for a reason to drag people in. Not surprised therefore that the teams should all agree.

I completey agree with you, and yes as I don't really blame Ferrari for asking.  It was worth a shot.  THe PR and interest the MS brings to the sport will be there regardless if he tests or not.  I have less worry about him then I did the rookie, and so should everyone else.  The only reason for MS to test is to sharpen his skills.  That is the point of testing. I am against letting him have that advantage over the other drivers on the grid.  The rules state no testing.  However if the FIA somehow think that MS out on the track is going to be a danger to everyone else, and they allow him to test for this hollow reason, then the least they can do is let everyone else test as well.

Edited by YHR, 01 August 2009 - 03:51 PM.

[Jean Todt]

tifosi too!, on 01 August 2009 - 08:34 AM, said:

We are already having this conversation here !!

Like I said,



It's simply not the same circumstances.
If FM was injured at his spare time, perhaps the FIA and FOTA could allow MS to test, but that wouldn't be fair to the rookies.
FM was injured during the qualifying session and it' s only ethical the team and MS are given a chance to prepare for putting another driver in FM's place.

If that's not logical for you, then ok!!

I agree with all you have said..


But I woud love to see some Schumi trashing...

[Kati]

it's simply the small in between the lines in formula one rules, that teams search to solve their own issues, like always. i do understand schumi is racing to 'help' felipe, but badoer and gene could've done it also and theorically not need the testing. wouldn't be as great, people wouldn't be talking bout f1, and thats why fia would've agreed to it if they had waited. now they say they'll investigate it, but, for the show, me guesses nothing will happen.

[tifosi too!]

abbas_gear, on 01 August 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:

I agree with all you have said..


But I woud love to see some Schumi trashing...

Of course !
MS comes back (not even sure yet) and suddenly the forum goes back to 2005/06!
I actually enjoy having these debates!
All we need now is Kenneth, FUSchumi and the other haters to complete the de-ja-vu!!!

[JHS]

My answer to this question is simple:

Because he's Michael. And because he CAN.

Nobody had heard of Jaime Alguersuari, and nobody apart from his family would really have cared where he finished his first race.

Yet with the recent announcement that Michael is coming back is creating such a media storm, an incredible interest from right around the world, F1 sees that they can make something of this and make a big deal about it.

It's unfair yes, but when you are the msot successful driver in F1 (according to the stats anyway) i guess anything goes.

[YHR]

Apparently, Williams says he can't.

[wapi]

YHR, on 03 August 2009 - 02:19 PM, said:

Apparently, Williams says he can't.

Norbert Haug comment about Williams decision:
AUTOSPORT understands that there remains some resistance to allowing Schumacher to test the F60, although the FOTA teams are believed to support Ferrari's case.

"You will find some guys that will try to block it," Haug admitted. "But what goes around comes around. They will need some help at another stage. It's not giving people presents, it's being fair when it's justifiable."

Link to full article: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/77518

That is exactly my opinion.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Indeed

Well maybe the issue is not so much: "Oh its unfair that Schui gets to test (maybe) and Jaime doesn't...."

More: "Why didn't Red Bull ask for the testing for Jaime?"

As I understand it they didn't - because if they had, we might not be having this debate.....

I think it is reasonable of Schui to ask for it; equally it would be reasonable for Red Bull to have done so. Rather than slagging off each other maybe the teams should have tried working together..... yet more proof why a breakaway series would never work. can you imagine:

Meeting 1: teams send an email to discuss lunch for their first FOTA breakaway meeting:

Brawn: We've brought some new recipes, an exotic fusion of tastes
Ferrari: Pasta please
Force India: Let's have curry
Williams: Pasta disagrees with our digestion, Steak and Kidney puddings are the only solution
Renault: Pastry was banned in 2006, pies are a breach of the rules!
McLaren: Have a copy of the menu from Ferrari's 2007 meeting....
Force India: Curry would be great
BMW: Godammned rubbish food - meat and lots of it or we are walking
Force India: You could have a meat curry?
Red Bull: We've been developing a menu around fusion too, we don't care really as long as it is washed down with Red Bull ™
STR: We'll have the same as Red Bull
Force India: Curry anyone?

[Rainmaster]

Apparently Red Bull voted against a Schumi test based on the very fact that their request for Algu-etc was denied. Seems fair enough to me.

[YHR]

I personally liked Williams response.  No malice, just the facts and an observation about the rules that govern the sport.

[wapi]

El Maestro, on 03 August 2009 - 07:19 PM, said:

Apparently Red Bull voted against a Schumi test based on the very fact that their request for Algu-etc was denied. Seems fair enough to me.

Who denied it? Williams? McM was not asked because Haug would not say that STR did not ask. Seems to me Dieter denied it because he did not want to spend money on temp worker.

Edited by wapi, 03 August 2009 - 10:19 PM.

[jackgarrett]

becuase testing is banned and some teams can get away with more things than others.

[pabloh20]

El Maestro, on 03 August 2009 - 07:19 PM, said:

Apparently Red Bull voted against a Schumi test based on the very fact that their request for Algu-etc was denied. Seems fair enough to me.

Apparently, Ferrari agreed to allow Algu Alguars the rookie to test. However, if they agreed to allow him to test and he wasnt't allowed to test, then logic dictates that at least 1 of the other teams disagreed.  So logically, their request...............oh bollocks, you know where I am going with it

[Rainmaster]

pabloh20, on 04 August 2009 - 06:31 PM, said:

Apparently, Ferrari agreed to allow Algu Alguars the rookie to test. However, if they agreed to allow him to test and he wasnt't allowed to test, then logic dictates that at least 1 of the other teams disagreed.  So logically, their request...............oh bollocks, you know where I am going with it

Yes I do It all makes sense if you think about it long enough...

[Kay]

Ferrari's response is, well, begs the question did Nigel Tozzi script it?

[wapi]

God forbid MS comes to the podium in spite of not testing!

From all the available information: both request were denied by same team - Williams. RB and STR would not decline if their request had been approved...

Like Haug said: "what goes around comes around". Williams will need some favor at some point and then revenge will be served cold. I do not like that kind of relations, but maybe it is time for some old bones to retire...

[dribbler]

wapi, on 04 August 2009 - 09:09 PM, said:

God forbid MS comes to the podium in spite of not testing!

From all the available information: both request were denied by same team - Williams. RB and STR would not decline if their request had been approved...

Like Haug said: "what goes around comes around". Williams will need some favor at some point and then revenge will be served cold. I do not like that kind of relations, but maybe it is time for some old bones to retire...

Frank Williams is one of the last honourable men left in the pitlane. He acted correctly and didn't betray his principals. I disagreed with him when he didn't harness BMW but now look where they are. He may be old but he still knows a thing or two.

[Kay]

dribbler, on 06 August 2009 - 07:03 AM, said:

Frank Williams is one of the last honourable men left in the pitlane. He acted correctly and didn't betray his principals. I disagreed with him when he didn't harness BMW but now look where they are. He may be old but he still knows a thing or two.

[BradSpeedMan]

dribbler, on 06 August 2009 - 07:03 AM, said:

Frank Williams is one of the last honourable men left in the pitlane. He acted correctly and didn't betray his principals. I disagreed with him when he didn't harness BMW but now look where they are. He may be old but he still knows a thing or two.

love your non-bias perspective....

[Insider]

In season testing is banned - Rule 21a - ende. I believe it to be irrelevant anyway. Michael's neck won't take it and it will be tough to get his weight down sufficiently for the car to run with KERS.  Will see him at Valencia?  Personally, I doubt it.

[BradSpeedMan]

Insider, on 06 August 2009 - 09:03 AM, said:

In season testing is banned - Rule 21a - ende. I believe it to be irrelevant anyway. Michael's neck won't take it and it will be tough to get his weight down sufficiently for the car to run with KERS.  Will see him at Valencia?  Personally, I doubt it.

I wonder how much weight does he still have to lose??? Does'nt the Hans device restric excessive neck movement, won't it help???

so many questions, so little time...