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No one brought this up???

http://www.gptoday.c...8217_of_Alonso/

I saw it, but it seemed to serve more as bait for people to discredit Alonso than as a trigger of good discussion. Fair game to post it, of course. I just worried it'd go in the wrong direction.

My thinking:

1. What "take care" means isn't really clear. Is it just don't push the guy into the gravel, is it let him through with ease, who knows?

2. If they're going to comply, you may as well ask. I think we all know that Ferrari has a ton of influence, and that Ferrari has always operated in this way. The fact his team does anything they can for him doesn't make Alonso any better or any worse of a driver. It just seems unrelated.

3. I know one thing that "take care" does not mean...Pérez passed Alonso for P2 at Monza. So, "take care of Alonso" wasn't a no-compete order.

It's a little too vague for me. Interesting, but vague. At the end of the day, it's motor racing, not driver racing, so the fact the team helps the driver to get the car in the best position isn't really something that gets a big emotional response from me.

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My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: it is only in a slightly superior level of crappy journalism as this fine piece of investigative journalism http://www.f1pulse.com/news/2013031870/alonso-refuses-to-partner-vettel-at-ferrari---report

Note that the article refers to the title's subject in only one paragraph, and that one merely says “The Spain ace, though, has rejected the plan to have world champion Vettel, 26, join him [...],' reports the Daily Star." There's no explanation of when on if he actually said so. Only a reference to an ambigous phrase in another article for which no link is provided. The manipulation is blatant.

Edited by Quiet One

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My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: it is only in a slightly superior level of crappy journalism as this fine piece of investigative journalism http://www.f1pulse.c...errari---report

Note that the article refers to the title's subject in only one paragraph, and that one merely says “The Spain ace, though, has rejected the plan to have world champion Vettel, 26, join him [...],' reports the Daily Star." There's no explanation of when on if he actually said so. Only a reference to an ambigous phrase in another article for which no link is provided. The manipulation is blatant.

The daily star, just no.

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I saw it, but it seemed to serve more as bait for people to discredit Alonso than as a trigger of good discussion. Fair game to post it, of course. I just worried it'd go in the wrong direction.

My thinking:

1. What "take care" means isn't really clear. Is it just don't push the guy into the gravel, is it let him through with ease, who knows?

2. If they're going to comply, you may as well ask. I think we all know that Ferrari has a ton of influence, and that Ferrari has always operated in this way. The fact his team does anything they can for him doesn't make Alonso any better or any worse of a driver. It just seems unrelated.

3. I know one thing that "take care" does not mean...Pérez passed Alonso for P2 at Monza. So, "take care of Alonso" wasn't a no-compete order.

It's a little too vague for me. Interesting, but vague. At the end of the day, it's motor racing, not driver racing, so the fact the team helps the driver to get the car in the best position isn't really something that gets a big emotional response from me.

Take care, I believe something like.... Malaysia 2012. It's enough Alonso does'nt want competitive teammates, but ferrari think he needs other drivers to take care of him, others that "owe" Ferrari a favour. Perez just did'nt give a hoot anymore at Monza because he switched alliances

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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I think people are reading too much into "take care". If I was Ferrari I would ask the same thing i.e. keep out of trouble esp. for their star driver.

If you asked the guys in Marussia I am sure they were asked to "take care" too by most of the other teams... :)

Bit of a non-headline really.

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I think people are reading too much into "take care". If I was Ferrari I would ask the same thing i.e. keep out of trouble esp. for their star driver.

If you asked the guys in Marussia I am sure they were asked to "take care" too by most of the other teams... smile.png

Bit of a non-headline really.

I'm really glad you voiced your opinion regarding this non-headline article. But the fact that Ferrari was/is Sauber's engine suppliers, which means a direct link to a another team as indeed there were many questions regarding Malasia regarding Alonso and Perez's positions, makes this non-headline news a bit clearer. Don't you think? Ferrari has the balls to instruct another driver to take care of a driver they service, or "beware the consequences", to put it mildly...

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Alonso, like Senna and Schumacher, is a winning driver surrounded by controversy. Sometimes on his own doing, sometimes as the face of his teams.

Like Senna, he's sometimes romanticized for having a relentless desire to win.

Like Schumacher, he's sometimes vilified for crossing the lines of sportsmanship.

To me, I just think Alonso's morally ambiguous like everyone else in this entire world. No heroes, no villains.

F1's no different from a concert, a TV show, or live theater.

Ever see a great concert that had a little bit of audio tricks going on to make it sound even better? Ever see a reality TV show that got a little more interesting because of the way it was edited? Ever find out the actors' lines were concealed somewhere, and they were just reading (okay, this was really low-end theater, but whatever, I'm cheap)?

I think it's valid to be upset by it, but I also think it's valid to pick your battles.

For me, the over-arching desire I have from F1 is to entertain me. The easiest way to do that is to put on a competitive race, and to have a competitive race, different contenders need to put in a good performance. It's just made sense to me to start supporting every driver and team. If they all do well, the race will be more exciting, so I want them to all do well. If doing well requires a little nudging of the Saubers to be gentle, so be it. I won't notice if the racing is good, and man, the racing's been really good lately.

That said, I have to be careful to not advocate an "ignorance is bliss" mentality. Things like this are fair to discuss, and I can understand why it would leave a sour taste to some. It doesn't bother me because I can't take F1 seriously enough to hold people to higher ethical standards than lazy ambiguity, but I wouldn't discount purity of sport. Does this go against that? Probably.

I think I'm trying to say that I acknowledge that this information, incomplete as it is, exists, and am trying to take something from it, as shown by the fact that I care enough to comment (twice). I just can't do that successfully. Maybe I need to hire my own Sauber account to make posts even longer and worse than mine to somehow make me look thoughtful (I just use the age-old cop out of riding the middle to appear to be wise and measured). :P

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So grapevine has it that Gillette could be McLaren's new sponsor.

Wonder if it'll help Macca shave a few tenths off each lap.

If Button & Perez fell out, "They don't gel with each other".

If the car doesn't get faster, "Button foams at the mouth" or "Perez works up into a lather".

A scary accident happens, "That was a close shave".

Yes, I've no life.

Edited by LabradoRacer

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Peter Windsor did a nice interview with Valtteri Bottas,

a pity about the car, I cant wait to see what the next flying finn gets up to, hopefully Williams can find some speed and he lives up to his mantra MAXIMUM ATTACK!. Bottas insist it should always be written in caps!

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So grapevine has it that Gillette could be McLaren's new sponsor.

Wonder if it'll help Macca shave a few tenths off each lap.

If Button & Perez fell out, "They don't gel with each other".

If the car doesn't get faster, "Button foams at the mouth" or "Perez works up into a lather".

A scary accident happens, "That was a close shave".

Yes, I've no life.

:lol: Excellent, Jay.

I will spend the rest of the year convincing myself that having a Boston-based company sponsoring an F1 team will bring a Grand Prix to my area, fully knowing it won't.

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Been busy so I'm late.

I have to say the "take care" thing is clutching at straws. Perez raced Alonso closely so many times last season so we know, as Eric said, that it isn't a non-compete order. I am of course assuming that nobody would make the argument that Perez was not actually trying to beat Alonso in Malaysia, for example, and that he deliberately drove off the track because he wanted to lose the race. Hopefully that's a given.

If we accept it isn't a non-compete type of instruction, we also immediately have to accept it isn't any type of instruction at all. That's because if you are accepting that the instruction has no impact on the outcome of races, then you are leaving the instruction with no other meaningful space to operate. Even if you took the interpretation that it meant "try not to have an accident with Alonso", that would already be something Perez would not want to do (both from a general driving POV and a career one).

Therefore, we can safely conclude this isn't an example of team orders, or even a particularly good example of Ferrari using its political power in an underhanded way. This is an example of a team telling a driver it is affiliated with to race its top driver intelligently; something which he would already want to do. They have not affected Perez's inclination or capacity to race Alonso. Nothing to see here, move along.

Edited by Rainmaster

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Alonso, like Senna and Schumacher, is a winning driver surrounded by controversy. Sometimes on his own doing, sometimes as the face of his teams.

Like Senna, he's sometimes romanticized for having a relentless desire to win.

Like Schumacher, he's sometimes vilified for crossing the lines of sportsmanship.

To me, I just think Alonso's morally ambiguous like everyone else in this entire world. No heroes, no villains.

F1's no different from a concert, a TV show, or live theater.

Ever see a great concert that had a little bit of audio tricks going on to make it sound even better? Ever see a reality TV show that got a little more interesting because of the way it was edited? Ever find out the actors' lines were concealed somewhere, and they were just reading (okay, this was really low-end theater, but whatever, I'm cheap)?

I think it's valid to be upset by it, but I also think it's valid to pick your battles.

For me, the over-arching desire I have from F1 is to entertain me. The easiest way to do that is to put on a competitive race, and to have a competitive race, different contenders need to put in a good performance. It's just made sense to me to start supporting every driver and team. If they all do well, the race will be more exciting, so I want them to all do well. If doing well requires a little nudging of the Saubers to be gentle, so be it. I won't notice if the racing is good, and man, the racing's been really good lately.

That said, I have to be careful to not advocate an "ignorance is bliss" mentality. Things like this are fair to discuss, and I can understand why it would leave a sour taste to some. It doesn't bother me because I can't take F1 seriously enough to hold people to higher ethical standards than lazy ambiguity, but I wouldn't discount purity of sport. Does this go against that? Probably.

I think I'm trying to say that I acknowledge that this information, incomplete as it is, exists, and am trying to take something from it, as shown by the fact that I care enough to comment (twice). I just can't do that successfully. Maybe I need to hire my own Sauber account to make posts even longer and worse than mine to somehow make me look thoughtful (I just use the age-old cop out of riding the middle to appear to be wise and measured). tongue.png

Welcome to the realm of a true motorsport fan, Eric. Support the race, not the guys in the race. Who cares who wins? I don't.

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No surprises here: Cosworth's out after 2013, and Marussia is pursuing other options. The speculation suggests Bianchi's Ferrari connection could make that a natural replacement, but my own speculation offers that Bianchi might not be at Marussia next year if he keeps doing what he does.

Hopefully, the switch will do more for Marussia than Renault could do for Caterham. Caterham's issues seem to go well beyond what those of us connected to the sport only via the Internet and not through anything else can see. They've picked up good personnel relative to their position (and subtracted Gascoyne, which I'm sure made Cristiano da Matta happy), had some solid drivers (this year, not as much, but I don't think Pic is horrible, either), were the first new team to get a non-Cosworth, have used Tune Group/AirAsia to get some high-end partners on the car (probably not much money tied up there, though; I assume, as we discussed months ago, that these partners are given special deals to help make the team look more credible to other partners...I'm not sure that's really worked, since the only non-Tune Group-related thing on the car is McGregor, which is a personal sponsor of van der Garde), and accumulated WCC money ($48,000,000 last year). I can see the argument that teams like Caterham don't want to be better than P10, because the added investment P10 to P9 is arguably the steepest one place on the grid. The problem, of course, is that they aren't even a lock for P10, and they should have been. The do-this-cheaply thing only works if you actually get that tenth place. Will they?

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So, RBR finally find some balls. Well, I say 'some' as it it very much a face-saving exercise as opposed to a punishment. Ricciardo gets Seb's tub for China and vice versa. A bizarre solution that will add spice to the event perhaps?

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So, RBR finally find some balls. Well, I say 'some' as it it very much a face-saving exercise as opposed to a punishment. Ricciardo gets Seb's tub for China and vice versa. A bizarre solution that will add spice to the event perhaps?

Would've been interesting to see indeed if it only weren't for that b#tch April.

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Well that's ridiculous!

Although...As I was trying to write down the reasons why it was a stupid punishment (only makes Webber feel good, suicidal in terms of the championship, unconvincing with the public, shows that 'disobeying orders' in the 'team with no orders' is the greatest crime among all the teams, etc.) I suddenly realized what was Vettel's greatest sin: he made everybody at RBR look like idiots. I guess that was the actual reason.

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Would've been interesting to see indeed if it only weren't for that b#tch April.

:lol: Yeah. Journalism today is so inaccurate as it is that it's getting harder to tell what's a joke and what isn't. They get paid to spread crap around the other 364 days. :P

(My first thought, before seeing your post, Asmer, was "how is that even possible? Wouldn't it be illegal to use another team's tub?" Then I realized I didn't need to be asking myself those questions...)

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Not a bad attempt at all, but the fact I was on Twitter at midnight immunised me from April Fools today because I already saw so many of them. Plus I checked Autosport before I came on here which had no mention of course, although they have got their own attempt.

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My least favorite "prank" article today was the one about a Grand Prix at Lime Rock Park. While I knew right away that it was a joke (F1 on a 1.5-mile track without any permanent seating in Nowhere, Connecticut...), I wanted it so badly to be true. I'd tough out the two-hour drive for that. tongue.png

Maybe the new club racing track in Thompson will get the race instead. ;)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH i IMMEDIATELY KNEW WHEN i READ THE HEADLINE HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH

Just noticed that quote about Vettel in your signature. I like it. thbup.gif

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