Does Kimi Break His Toys?

[Jean Todt 4]

i wonder what they have to say about button! hes known to be the smoothest driver around...very light on d car....yet he is experiencing such a lot of mechanical failures....does that mean hes breaking his car??

i think no! its all hondas fault!

same way even kimi was going through what button is going through...

it was mercs fault not kimis!

[Kay 0]

I think the problem some people have is that Kimi continually seems to have more failures, whereas with Button it is his first time in awhile to get more than his fair share.

[demonhorse 0]

With Button it wasn't happening every other race, in fact it was happening far less with ANY other driver than Kimi. I still refuse to believe he is 0% responsible and completely blameless, simply because of the frequency of these events last year, but neither am I saying it's ALL his fault (and for the record I never have).

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

With Button it wasn't happening every other race, in fact it was happening far less with ANY other driver than Kimi. I still refuse to believe he is 0% responsible and completely blameless, simply because of the frequency of these events last year, but neither am I saying it's ALL his fault (and for the record I never have).

Don't talk about your beliefs, talk about facts. They are more interesting.

[Kay 0]

This topic is all about opinion though. No one can know factually whether he breaks his car or not unless they work for Mclaren, and I don't think anyone here does.

[Autumnpuma 0]

This topic is all about opinion though. No one can know factually whether he breaks his car or not unless they work for Mclaren, and I don't think anyone here does.

You could effectively say that about every topic on this forum! That seems a rather lazy way of avoiding the subject.

Observations can be made and intelligent conclusions can be drawn from them. This forum is about expressing opinions on our observations. I don't agree with all the opinons expressed, but I read them and try to understand what the poster is talking about.

[narain fan 0]

This topic is all about opinion though. No one can know factually whether he breaks his car or not unless they work for Mclaren, and I don't think anyone here does.

by the same logic your "SUPPORT"

for webber is not based on facts........

[Kay 0]

You could effectively say that about every topic on this forum! That seems a rather lazy way of avoiding the subject.

Observations can be made and intelligent conclusions can be drawn from them. This forum is about expressing opinions on our observations. I don't agree with all the opinons expressed, but I read them and try to understand what the poster is talking about.

I'm not avoiding the subject at all, don't understand why you have said that because I offered my opinion at the beginning of this thread. I was making the point (to raikkonen_dominates) that to disregard what someone says because it is opinion is pretty silly, as everything we say here is opinion.

What I previously said: http://www.totalf1.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=121355

by the same logic your "SUPPORT"

for webber is not based on facts........

Who rattled the monkey's cage?

I never said anything was based on facts, better luck next time.

[narain fan 0]

I'm not avoiding the subject at all, don't understand why you have said that because I offered my opinion at the beginning of this thread. I was making the point (to raikkonen_dominates) that to disregard what someone says because it is opinion is pretty silly, as everything we say here is opinion.

What I previously said: http://www.totalf1.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=121355

Who rattled the monkey's cage?

I never said anything was based on facts, better luck next time.

i am not allow to use your own argument then,am i

[Kay 0]

Care to elaborate?

[Autumnpuma 0]

I'm not avoiding the subject at all, don't understand why you have said that because I offered my opinion at the beginning of this thread. I was making the point (to raikkonen_dominates) that to disregard what someone says because it is opinion is pretty silly, as everything we say here is opinion.

Sorry, my bad. I didn't follow it...

[narain fan 0]

Care to elaborate?

good night

[Kay 0]

Sorry, my bad. I didn't follow it...

No worries.

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

This topic is all about opinion though. No one can know factually whether he breaks his car or not unless they work for Mclaren, and I don't think anyone here does.

ok, yes, what I meant is that if you can somehow give some facts to support your opinions, it is more interesting to read. If you just say 'Kimi sucks', it is sort of boring.

[Autumnpuma 0]

ok, yes, what I meant is that if you can somehow give some facts to support your opinions, it is more interesting to read. If you just say 'Kimi sucks', it is sort of boring.

True, though most of the time, as Kay says, facts are very scarce. It is in those instances we have to fall back on our observational and critical thinking skills based, hopefully, on a good knowledge of Formula 1 over a period of years.

[Kay 0]

Well demonhorse is basing his beliefs on the "fact" that Kimi has retired frequently over several years... and that is about the closest to a good fact you can get in this topic as we can't see what is behind the scenes. Whereas if it is a "who is better" thread you have many more "facts" to use.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Well demonhorse is basing his beliefs on the "fact" that Kimi has retired frequently over several years... and that is about the closest to a good fact you can get in this topic as we can't see what is behind the scenes. Whereas if it is a "who is better" thread you have many more "facts" to use.

True, but we can make conclusions based on our observations...and mine at least go deeper than a 'belief'...I should go dig up all my arguments and post them here...I'll try to find the time as they are scattered in this forum...

[nojvnof1 0]

What have you started Mike?!?!?!

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

Well demonhorse is basing his beliefs on the "fact" that Kimi has retired frequently over several years... and that is about the closest to a good fact you can get in this topic as we can't see what is behind the scenes. Whereas if it is a "who is better" thread you have many more "facts" to use.

Well, you can get much closer than that. If you want to. As a finn, I have been following Kimi's career a long time now, and I can say that putting Mclaren's struggle to Kimi's fault is absolute bulls##t. But here are guys, who don't seem to have INTEREST to go deep into the facts, they are just continually repeating their beliefs, which AREN't BY NOW MEANS ANALYTICAL.

Wait and see next year, when Alonso drops to Montoya-level in Mclaren.

[demonhorse 0]

I haven't said it was completely Kimis fault, but he must be playing some part, however minor.

I do still fail to see why so many rate him so highly, and little will change that.

Maybe it will change if he goes to Ferrari and ends up winning more, or even finishing races.

[cavallino 2]

Very interesting radio conversation with Fisi in Canada - "Be careful at the exit of turn 6, you hit the limiter in second (rev limiter)." That's a bit of a blow to the drivers can't damage cars now theory.

[Autumnpuma 0]

What have you started Mike?!?!?!

I opened a whole ugly can of worms, didn't I? It's good to see where people are at on this, but I wish they'd all remain civil about it...

[Kay 0]

Due to driving styles though, the car must be put under different strains for different drivers, for example some "stomp" on their brakes, whereas others are smooth.

Otherwise if the car had a problem like with both Williams in Monaco, they would go out more or less on the same lap.

I think a lot of it also is dependant on where you are. If you're behind another car your own will act completely different to how it would if you were driving away in first. Surely these different situations and different driving styles at least contribute to already existing faults within the car...

Those are my further thoughts from my first post in this thread.

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

I haven't said it was completely Kimis fault, but he must be playing some part, however minor.

I do still fail to see why so many rate him so highly, and little will change that.

Maybe it will change if he goes to Ferrari and ends up winning more, or even finishing races.

Finishing races is about car reliability. Winning races depends on how fast your car is. Driver's performance, however, can be best measured by comparing with his team-mate. And Kimi has a history of former stardriver - team-mates, who after being Kimi's team mates seem to drop to b-league. Obviously DC or Montoya are great drivers, it just doesn't seem that way when they are competing against Kimi. If Montoya would run Renault, for example, he would dominate like Alonso now. If Kimi stays at Mclaren, we are talking about how Alonso has dropped his performance, and how some new driver (Kubica, Kovalainen, whoever in different team than Kimi) is so much better than Kimi

Very interesting radio conversation with Fisi in Canada - "Be careful at the exit of turn 6, you hit the limiter in second (rev limiter)." That's a bit of a blow to the drivers can't damage cars now theory.

What do you mean? All that says is, that they have a limiter. If you ask Renault engineers, they will tell you that limiter is used to save the car. Drivers' issue is to drive the car as fast as possible, otherwise there would't bee any difference between drivers. Otherwise every team would't want Kimi so much.

And that conversation doesn't mean they would be worried about car breaking, but they are worried about Fisichella spinning.

[cavallino 2]

It means that the driver hitting the limiter is undesirable i.e. that is osmething the driver has control over and has tobe careful about.