Does Kimi Break His Toys?

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

Good points puma. However if a driver does not push their machinery, then they have no place in F1. Asked after Kimi's near amazing win at the Euro GP last year, many top persons in the pitlane said they would have pushed for the win as well. Ron Dennis has said on many occasions that he goes for the wins, and not for the "playing it safe" and coming in 2nd, 3rd, wherever. Has this caused their team to lose WDCs? of course. Has their lack of a defined #1 and #2 (ala Ferrari), hurt them? yes again.

You point out that if Kimi was less agressive on his cars, that maybe they wouldn't break as much. That certainly is a possibility. But Mika also experienced the unreliable McLarens. So did DC. Heck look back at Ferrari before Schumi joined and even a year or 2 after he joined and see how much of a bomb those cars were. It was a given that one of the red turds was going to blowup at a GP. Now look at them. Their car is bulletproof pretty much and has been for years. The difference was they built a better car. Both McLaren and Mercedes are on record many times as saying they need to improve reliability. McLaren and Mercedes see more telemetry and other numbers than we will ever see. The fact they are so desperate to retain Kimi shows they believe in him as well. The sad part of it is, I think Kimi will leave for Ferrari. Wanting to built a fast reliable car, is not the same as actually doing it. Had McLaren not built a rocket last year, this wouldn't be so much of an issue. But the fact remains, McLaren are lacking reliability and since Newey has gone, I think are lacking in general car development as well.

you are excatly right.

And more about Kimi, as a finn I have observed finnish drivers like Mika, Kimi, Nico , Keke etc. for long time. Even though Mika is the most succesful finnish driver ever, I think Kimi is more talented. I really doubt, if there has ever been more talented driver in F1.

His road to F1 is a real legend in Finland. Because of lack of money, he had only run 20 (!) car races totally before his manager bought him 1 F1 test day with sauber.

Rookie-Kimi Run 1 lap, came back to pit and said to Peter Sauber: 'I don't like your car. Here are the changes I want you to do:...'

They made the changes and Kimi run the best lap time ever with Sauber car.

After only that one test Peter Sauber offered Kimi driver place in Sauber. He had really big troubles to get his super licence , because he was so unexperienced. But he did, and the rest is history.

His talent and his mental strongness and self-confidence make him the best finnish driver ever, if not even best ever in world. Even without the world championships.

[Jean Todt 4]

you are excatly right.

And more about Kimi, as a finn I have observed finnish drivers like Mika, Kimi, Nico , Keke etc. for long time. Even though Mika is the most succesful finnish driver ever, I think Kimi is more talented. I really doubt, if there has ever been more talented driver in F1.

His road to F1 is a real legend in Finland. Because of lack of money, he had only run 20 (!) car races totally before his manager bought him 1 F1 test day with sauber.

Rookie-Kimi Run 1 lap, came back to pit and said to Peter Sauber: 'I don't like your car. Here are the changes I want you to do:...'

They made the changes and Kimi run the best lap time ever with Sauber car.

After only that one test Peter Sauber offered Kimi driver place in Sauber. He had really big troubles to get his super licence , because he was so unexperienced. But he did, and the rest is history.

His talent and his mental strongness and self-confidence make him the best finnish driver ever, if not even best ever in world. Even without the world championships.

though am not a finn i back those words " best finnish driver ever, if not even best ever in world. Even without the world championships."

[BradSpeedMan 6]

you are excatly right.

And more about Kimi, as a finn I have observed finnish drivers like Mika, Kimi, Nico , Keke etc. for long time. Even though Mika is the most succesful finnish driver ever, I think Kimi is more talented. I really doubt, if there has ever been more talented driver in F1.

His road to F1 is a real legend in Finland. Because of lack of money, he had only run 20 (!) car races totally before his manager bought him 1 F1 test day with sauber.

Rookie-Kimi Run 1 lap, came back to pit and said to Peter Sauber: 'I don't like your car. Here are the changes I want you to do:...'

They made the changes and Kimi run the best lap time ever with Sauber car.

After only that one test Peter Sauber offered Kimi driver place in Sauber. He had really big troubles to get his super licence , because he was so unexperienced. But he did, and the rest is history.

His talent and his mental strongness and self-confidence make him the best finnish driver ever, if not even best ever in world. Even without the world championships.

nice info...

[michelfx 0]

nice info...

Go Kimi Go

[sliderule 0]

What do you mean? Everybody in F1 knows, that Alonso's car setup is so difficult, that nobody else can drive a car even near of that. Fisichella has been suffering from this fact now for years.

And Alonso certainly is in trouble with understeering car, just remember last year's Monaco, when the tyres were worn Alonso was in real trouble. Alonso really needs a bit oversteering car to be in pace.

Also with Minardi, the car most certainly was understeering, and Alonso didn't really impress when compared to his team-mate. Ok, that was his first year in F1, but somebody has been here comparing also Kimi's performance to his team-mate in sauber, his first year.

And next year in Mclaren we will see the result, that obviously will surprise many people here.

Alonso will be in Montoya-Coulthard axis in performance, when compared to Kimi (those guys were also conserned as top drivers before being Kimi's team-mates)

rubbish... Fisichella is strugling cause he always has if you really think about it, he seldom gets into the weekend with good rhythm to bring home the results on sunday afternoon, his life story. Seems to me the very good drivers in F1 are the ones that can adapt themselves to the cars characteristics while developing it to suit them even better to their driving inputs. No doubt M. Schumacher, Alonso and Raikkonen have this ability. On what I clearly disagree with you is on Alonso's ability to adapt to Mclaren. True might be his first year might not be the greatest but if the car holds together unlike what has been for Kimi we should see a preatty good combo with Alonso on the Mclaren. Although if it would have been me in Alonso's shoes I would have waited it out and signed with Renault.

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

rubbish... Fisichella is strugling cause he always has if you really think about it, he seldom gets into the weekend with good rhythm to bring home the results on sunday afternoon, his life story. Seems to me the very good drivers in F1 are the ones that can adapt themselves to the cars characteristics while developing it to suit them even better to their driving inputs. No doubt M. Schumacher, Alonso and Raikkonen have this ability. On what I clearly disagree with you is on Alonso's ability to adapt to Mclaren. True might be his first year might not be the greatest but if the car holds together unlike what has been for Kimi we should see a preatty good combo with Alonso on the Mclaren. Although if it would have been me in Alonso's shoes I would have waited it out and signed with Renault.

I think Alonso certainly is great driver, when the car is perfect for his driving style, but next year we will see, how he manages otherwise. I think his performance will go down. But we will see.

And about Alonso's car setup, it really is totally different from anybody else in F1. That is commonly known fact. It certainly doesn't help Fisichella, if no1 driver in team needs totally different car setup than anybody else.

[stopkidding 0]

I think Alonso certainly is great driver, when the car is perfect for his driving style, but next year we will see, how he manages otherwise. I think his performance will go down. But we will see.

And about Alonso's car setup, it really is totally different from anybody else in F1. That is commonly known fact. It certainly doesn't help Fisichella, if no1 driver in team needs totally different car setup than anybody else.

winning a world championship makes you learn things and learn how to learn things. With the clout alonso carried and possibly a second world championship going into mclaren, I am sure he can get mclaren to design the car around him. I don't expect him to dominate right off the bat in his first year at mclaren, but do expect him to stay at the top.

[tifosi too! 0]

you are excatly right.

And more about Kimi, as a finn I have observed finnish drivers like Mika, Kimi, Nico , Keke etc. for long time. Even though Mika is the most succesful finnish driver ever, I think Kimi is more talented. I really doubt, if there has ever been more talented driver in F1.

His road to F1 is a real legend in Finland. Because of lack of money, he had only run 20 (!) car races totally before his manager bought him 1 F1 test day with sauber.

Rookie-Kimi Run 1 lap, came back to pit and said to Peter Sauber: 'I don't like your car. Here are the changes I want you to do:...'

They made the changes and Kimi run the best lap time ever with Sauber car.

After only that one test Peter Sauber offered Kimi driver place in Sauber. He had really big troubles to get his super licence , because he was so unexperienced. But he did, and the rest is history.

His talent and his mental strongness and self-confidence make him the best finnish driver ever, if not even best ever in world. Even without the world championships.

Well for all is worth that's not what i heard from the tv commentators about that incident with Peter Sauber.Kimi was told to cruise around at first and then when they send him back out he was told to go as fast as he could!Kimi did 2-3 laps and they brought him back.It was obvious he had the speed but when Sauber told him to go and make some more fast laps if he could (first time he ever drove an F1 car), Kimi just looked down and said he didnt think he could!!It was the first shock of driving an F1 car of course!!And dont forget that NH was much better than kimi when they were team mates!kimi couldn't have been faster than NH who was already a Sauber and an F1 driver!

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

Well for all is worth that's not what i heard from the tv commentators about that incident with Peter Sauber.Kimi was told to cruise around at first and then when they send him back out he was told to go as fast as he could!Kimi did 2-3 laps and they brought him back.It was obvious he had the speed but when Sauber told him to go and make some more fast laps if he could (first time he ever drove an F1 car), Kimi just looked down and said he didnt think he could!!It was the first shock of driving an F1 car of course!!And dont forget that NH was much better than kimi when they were team mates!kimi couldn't have been faster than NH who was already a Sauber and an F1 driver!

Well, what you said isn't just true. Those words I used were exact words, Kimi said to Peter Sauber. First-hand information

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

Well for all is worth that's not what i heard from the tv commentators about that incident with Peter Sauber.Kimi was told to cruise around at first and then when they send him back out he was told to go as fast as he could!Kimi did 2-3 laps and they brought him back.It was obvious he had the speed but when Sauber told him to go and make some more fast laps if he could (first time he ever drove an F1 car), Kimi just looked down and said he didnt think he could!!It was the first shock of driving an F1 car of course!!And dont forget that NH was much better than kimi when they were team mates!kimi couldn't have been faster than NH who was already a Sauber and an F1 driver!

So Nick Heidfeld was much faster than Kimi, but McLaren chose Kimi to drive for them the following season, even though Heidfeld had a pre-agreement with McLaren...

yeah, right

[Player(1) 0]

Unless Alonso has been driving a Renault F1 car his whole race career i think he is above average at adapting to a car, he went into a series and won championship's mostly on the first try from junior go-kart's to F1 and there is alot of adapting to do between those dont you think? Ofcourse i predict MS has the best chance of winning a championship (if the car's stay in the same pecking order of performance) in 2007 but it wont be a walk in the park.

You measure a driver by his team mate in F1 and when you see talents like Trulli and Fisi (dont personally like Fisi but he is highly thought of in the paddock) being left for dust you know Alonso is getting the max out of the car. Personally i only see Kimi being fast when the car is fast and slow when it's slow, JPM can match him on pace (when his traction control isent ruining his race ) so i really cant see whats so special about Kimi....compared to other F1 drivers that is, extra special is what people seem to think he is.

Im not sure he really fits into F1, holding your foot down until something brakes while entertaining and proberly a big draw for the young fans that manage to pull themselfs away from watching wwf wrestling to see a race just isent what F1 is truely about these days. Alonso and MS know how its done, working the whole weekend, conserving tires, conserving engines, setting pace, etc... then only pushing hard at key points to make a strategy work, the stuff that isent as exciting but takes intelligence and net's you points, wins and championships.

I'm sure theres another part to Kimi's attraction....people love to see MS get beaten, thats actually why i used to support JPM before i found out he's an idiot.....fast one but could only win championship's with vastly superior machinery JV style.

Lets just say being an Alonso fan i've no fear of wishing for Kimi/Alonso at McLaren 2007 Still havent seen Kimi getting into a fair fight with MS and Alonso yet so he still hasent proven himself to me.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

You measure a driver by his team mate in F1 and when you see talents like Trulli and Fisi (dont personally like Fisi but he is highly thought of in the paddock) being left for dust you know Alonso is getting the max out of the car. Personally i only see Kimi being fast when the car is fast and slow when it's slow, JPM can match him on pace (when his traction control isent ruining his race ) so i really cant see whats so special about Kimi....compared to other F1 drivers that is, extra special is what people seem to think he is.

Im not sure he really fits into F1, holding your foot down until something brakes while entertaining and proberly a big draw for the young fans that manage to pull themselfs away from watching wwf wrestling to see a race just isent what F1 is truely about these days. Alonso and MS know how its done, working the whole weekend, conserving tires, conserving engines, setting pace, etc... then only pushing hard at key points to make a strategy work, the stuff that isent as exciting but takes intelligence and net's you points, wins and championships.

I'm sure theres another part to Kimi's attraction....people love to see MS get beaten, thats actually why i used to support JPM before i found out he's an idiot.....fast one but could only win championship's with vastly superior machinery JV style.

Lets just say being an Alonso fan i've no fear of wishing for Kimi/Alonso at McLaren 2007 Still havent seen Kimi getting into a fair fight with MS and Alonso yet so he still hasent proven himself to me.

Please read the whole thread b4 you commit yourself to saying stupid things like this....

[Player(1) 0]

Please read the whole thread b4 you commit yourself to saying stupid things like this....

I did but filtered out the stupid things other people have said then added personal observations to come up with my opinion, speak up if you really think i made any wild completely inaccurate comments that's insulted you.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

...then added personal observations to come up with my opinion...

yep, i think that might be it!!! thanks for the honesty and good luck with future debates....

[tifosi too! 0]

So Nick Heidfeld was much faster than Kimi, but McLaren chose Kimi to drive for them the following season, even though Heidfeld had a pre-agreement with McLaren...

yeah, right

Well he WAS and probably could be just as good in a Mclaren!Maybe you weren't watching F1 the whole time in 2001?? Kimi was a rookie back then and with very little experience.He didn't make the fastest ever lap in a sauber car in his 2nd lap in one

[BradSpeedMan 6]

It was obvious he had the speed but when Sauber told him to go and make some more fast laps if he could (first time he ever drove an F1 car), Kimi just looked down and said he didnt think he could!

It's really hilarious what ppl come up with in totalf1 forums...

[tifosi too! 0]

It's really hilarious what ppl come up with in totalf1 forums...

Hey ...Man, as i said that is what the commentators said about the incident that the other forum member described.Maybe you should take your own advice and read the thread before posting.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Hey ...Man, as i said that is what the commentators said about the incident that the other forum member described.

yes, and thats so ridiculous thats why i'm laughting heheheheehe

[tifosi too! 0]

yes, and thats so ridiculous thats why i'm laughting heheheheehe

What is ridiculous????I just "corrected" the whole incident as i heard it from the tv commentators.I wasn't there and i guess neither was you !!!!

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

Well he WAS and probably could be just as good in a Mclaren!Maybe you weren't watching F1 the whole time in 2001?? Kimi was a rookie back then and with very little experience.He didn't make the fastest ever lap in a sauber car in his 2nd lap in one

who says he made the fastest lap in his 2nd lap? I have already once written, what happened. Read it there.

And about Kimi's pace compared to Heidfeld, in his first ever grand prix in F1, Kimi bet Heidfeld and ended the race in fifth place. So he took 2 championships points in his first grand prix. Not so bad for the rookie? Also during the whole season, Kimi bet Heidfeld. It is all written down, so all you have to do is go and recheck your information. If Heidfeld would have been better, sure they would taken him to Mclaren, so there is no need for you to be bitter Just remember, Heidfeld already had a pre-agreement with Mclaren.

Anyway, Kimi is really special driver, only people who doesn't really give a Sh#t about, what other people think about him.

Also, he is a sort of 'freak of nature': his ability to characterize 3-dimensional environmental problems around him is actually medically tested. It was found to be really exceptional. I think you can see it from his driving: even though he takes the car to absolutely limit, you can't very often see him making silly mistakes. And when the car is difficult to drive, like Mclaren, that difference comes more clear. Just compare to Montoya.

But next year we will see, how Alonso can handle this kind of situation. In other words, is the driver exceptional, or is it just Renault? Will the pace go down, when Mclaren understeers?

Unfortunately we can't see the competition between the team-mates, when Kimi goes to Ferrari. But one think I would bet on: next year Kimi will beat Alonso. Anybody to take this bet for 100 euro?

[tifosi too! 0]

who says he made the fastest lap in his 2nd lap? I have already once written, what happened. Read it there.

And about Kimi's pace compared to Heidfeld, in his first ever grand prix in F1, Kimi bet Heidfeld and ended the race in fifth place. So he took 2 championships points in his first grand prix. Not so bad for the rookie? Also during the whole season, Kimi bet Heidfeld. It is all written down, so all you have to do is go and recheck your information. If Heidfeld would have been better, sure they would taken him to Mclaren, so there is no need for you to be bitter Just remember, Heidfeld already had a pre-agreement with Mclaren.

Anyway, Kimi is really special driver, only people who doesn't really give a Sh#t about, what other people think about him.

Also, he is a sort of 'freak of nature': his ability to characterize 3-dimensional environmental problems around him is actually medically tested. It was found to be really exceptional. I think you can see it from his driving: even though he takes the car to absolutely limit, you can't very often see him making silly mistakes. And when the car is difficult to drive, like Mclaren, that difference comes more clear. Just compare to Montoya.

But next year we will see, how Alonso can handle this kind of situation. In other words, is the driver exceptional, or is it just Renault? Will the pace go down, when Mclaren understeers?

Unfortunately we can't see the competition between the team-mates, when Kimi goes to Ferrari. But one think I would bet on: next year Kimi will beat Alonso. Anybody to take this bet for 100 euro?

As far as the first highlighted sentences just follow the link!

http://www.formula1.com/archive/grandprix/2001/34.html

And i never questioned Kimi's talents(but i do consider MS to be a better driver).I like Kimi and i hope he does come to Ferrari next year!And about that story it doesn't really matter!I just wrote what I heard!And if you do read again what YOU wrote maybe it would be easier to understand what i'm talking about

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

As far as the first highlighted sentences just follow the link!

http://www.formula1.com/archive/grandprix/2001/34.html

And i never questioned Kimi's talents(but i do consider MS to be a better driver).I like Kimi and i hope he does come to Ferrari next year!And about that story it doesn't really matter!I just wrote what I heard!And if you do read again what YOU wrote maybe it would be easier to understand what i'm talking about

oops. It seems that I remembered wrong...

But hey, maybe this convinces somebody for the 100 euro bet?

As far as the first highlighted sentences just follow the link!

http://www.formula1.com/archive/grandprix/2001/34.html

And i never questioned Kimi's talents(but i do consider MS to be a better driver).I like Kimi and i hope he does come to Ferrari next year!And about that story it doesn't really matter!I just wrote what I heard!And if you do read again what YOU wrote maybe it would be easier to understand what i'm talking about

Michael Schumacher is by no means better driver than Kimi, but of course more succesfull. Onfortunately, we will not see Schumi being Kimi's team-mate. I am almost certain, that he is not ready to be treated equalent to his team-mate. The risk is too high.

The drivers to compare Kimi are, I think, Gilles Villeneuve and Senna. 'Cause it's not the question of statictics. But when you see those guys drive, you just KNOW.

[demonhorse 0]

No-one has yet answered the question of why Montoya could make HIS McLaren last and Kimi couldn't... at comparitive speeds too. If it was the car, don't ya think Montoya's wudda blown a couple of times too?

and No, I don't believe in the 'luck' bulls**t that people will use as a 'reason'.

[Jean Todt 4]

No-one has yet answered the question of why Montoya could make HIS McLaren last and Kimi couldn't... at comparitive speeds too. If it was the car, don't ya think Montoya's wudda blown a couple of times too?

and No, I don't believe in the 'luck' bulls**t that people will use as a 'reason'.

I had alreay replied to that...last year, jpm had less chance of pushing his car to the limit when compared to kimi....montoya took his time to get used to mclaren and in between he had his accident, then when he was back for a couple of races he still had to drive with caution becasue he was still recovering from the injury, montoya did have failures but i dont remember if he did have engine problems( i think it was drive shaft and gearboxes), but when jpm got used to mclarens he started winning, but if you look at kimi, kimi was mostly charging rather than racing...he was forced to do it to try and win or collect max points, where as montoya had nothing to loose, last year jpm was much less agressive.. since kimi was charging most of the time some of the engines did last the race distance but it had to be changed for the upcoming gps which forced him back in qualifying. then i guess mclaren team themselves are a cause for the engine failures many in a couple of occassions as team spokesmen admitted(by not fitting the correct pistons or something)..in short, then by adding extra amount of fuel(which also could have caused failures) forcing the engine to work hard to carry that extra weight....all in all...i belive it is not luck...it may be the miscalculations....micheal has charged through the field several times and never experienced the kind of failures kimi has experienced

from what i have seen, i belive, one must blame mclaren merc, rather than their talented driver!

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

No-one has yet answered the question of why Montoya could make HIS McLaren last and Kimi couldn't... at comparitive speeds too. If it was the car, don't ya think Montoya's wudda blown a couple of times too?

and No, I don't believe in the 'luck' bulls**t that people will use as a 'reason'.

I agree you in some way, because the amount of bad luck Kimi has had is really unbelievable. It is so many times that Kimi's race has ended without his own fault. Maybe there is a Columbian mafia, that is behind the motorbreaks?