Does Kimi Break His Toys?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

No-one has yet answered the question of why Montoya could make HIS McLaren last and Kimi couldn't... at comparitive speeds too. If it was the car, don't ya think Montoya's wudda blown a couple of times too?

and No, I don't believe in the 'luck' bulls**t that people will use as a 'reason'.

Maybe you should just try and accept the POSSIBILITY that it was bad luck. I refer again to 2004 when sato's engine kept blowing, and Jensons was fine. Do you think it was all sato's fault for 'overdriving' the car? cos if u don't, then why the hell do u think kimi's failures are all his own fault? You have no evidence whatsoever for your opinion and appear to just be basing it on the fact that kimi has broken down more times than JPM

[Player(1) 0]

Maybe you should just try and accept the POSSIBILITY that it was bad luck. I refer again to 2004 when sato's engine kept blowing, and Jensons was fine. Do you think it was all sato's fault for 'overdriving' the car? cos if u don't, then why the hell do u think kimi's failures are all his own fault? You have no evidence whatsoever for your opinion and appear to just be basing it on the fact that kimi has broken down more times than JPM

Actually didnt they think it was Sato's driving style that caused all the engine failures for him? i'm sure its very possible to overstress an F1 engine by bouncing it off the rev limit excessively or accelerating out of corners in a higher gear then your team mate does...it reduces TC cut in and is smoother for example but would make the engine work harder. With the extreme tolerances they work with in F1 i'm sure reapeated bad habit's could cause mechanical failures.

Less likely for Kimi i'd say but i'm pretty sure Sato was causing his own "bad luck".

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Actually didnt they think it was Sato's driving style that caused all the engine failures for him? i'm sure its very possible to overstress an F1 engine by bouncing it off the rev limit excessively or accelerating out of corners in a higher gear then your team mate does...it reduces TC cut in and is smoother for example but would make the engine work harder. With the extreme tolerances they work with in F1 i'm sure reapeated bad habit's could cause mechanical failures.

Less likely for Kimi i'd say but i'm pretty sure Sato was causing his own "bad luck".

In 2004 BAR couldnt explain it and kept saying they were sure it was nothing to do with sato. Also note that in 2005/06 sato didnt have those reliability issues.

[demonhorse 0]

In 2004 BAR couldnt explain it and kept saying they were sure it was nothing to do with sato. Also note that in 2005/06 sato didnt have those reliability issues.

Maybe he actually improved his driving slightly, or at least the way he handles his car?

just a suggestion

[Eduan 0]

It is all down to Mclaren I think everytime I think about 2005 the MP4-20!!Fantastic areo package stuffed up engine that could not make it when Kimi needed it most!!

Kimi plays nice with his toys , it is toys that has a problem!!

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

No-one has yet answered the question of why Montoya could make HIS McLaren last and Kimi couldn't... at comparitive speeds too. If it was the car, don't ya think Montoya's wudda blown a couple of times too?

and No, I don't believe in the 'luck' bulls**t that people will use as a 'reason'.

Well, I can explain it to you.

If the driver makes repeatedly mistakes and can't keep the car long enough on the track that the engine overheats, how could the engine brake?

[demonhorse 0]

Well, I can explain it to you.

If the driver makes repeatedly mistakes and can't keep the car long enough on the track that the engine overheats, how could the engine brake?

thats not explaining, thats answering a question with another question....

I never said he repeatedly makes mistakes that mean he cant keep his car on track, its his engine he cant seem to keep together half the time, or it was last year.

Less so this year, and oh look, hes not all that competitive...

[KoolMonkey 0]

Kimi's blowups last year were not all engine related. We had transmissions, hydrolics and other failures. You guys can keep pouring the weaksauce, but I'm not convinced. Kimi is one of the best drivers on the grid and I hope he ends up with Renault or Ferrari so he can finally put his name on a well overdue WDC.

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

thats not explaining, thats answering a question with another question....

I never said he repeatedly makes mistakes that mean he cant keep his car on track, its his engine he cant seem to keep together half the time, or it was last year.

Less so this year, and oh look, hes not all that competitive...

Well, let's put it together again. Exclusively for you, because I think everyone else understood.

Montoya managed to crash with other cars last year so often, that his engine got no choise to blow up. I mean, when he was driving, because of his 'tennis accident' also other guys got chance to break Mercedes motors. And when he didn't crush with others, he usually spinned or crashed with some loose part on the track, which was of course very good for his engine-break statistics. This year Kimi's engine has broken at least in Monaco, when he got chance to win, but otherwise there have been also mechanical issues, so that the engine has not broken. However, even if this makes him look less competitive, he still seems to do ok with his team mate, even though Juan pablo managed to reach the podium in Monaco after Kimi's engine blow.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Kimi's blowups last year were not all engine related. We had transmissions, hydrolics and other failures. You guys can keep pouring the weaksauce, but I'm not convinced. Kimi is one of the best drivers on the grid and I hope he ends up with Renault or Ferrari so he can finally put his name on a well overdue WDC.

I have never said he breaks only his engines. He breaks driveshafts and suspensions also. This is not to say all his engine failures are his fault, but enough of them seem to be that it forms a pattern of sorts.

I disagree that his WDC is overdue. He hasn't demonstrated the patience or mechanical sympathy needed to become a WDC. All he knows is 'go fast'. Admirable, but that alone doesn't win a WDC.

[demonhorse 0]

I disagree that his WDC is overdue. He hasn't demonstrated the patience or mechanical sympathy needed to become a WDC. All he knows is 'go fast'. Admirable, but that alone doesn't win a WDC.

Indeed. As I have said in the past, he is a race winner, but not a WDC.

And Stop with the patronising BS just because I choose not to believe the KR-propaganda machine. You don't see me saying people are stupid just because they hate schumacher, I disagree with them but I respect their right to a different opinion.

All I DO see in the pro-Kimi argument is excuses... poor excuses that everything is to blame BUT the boy blunder himself... excuses that he shudda, wudda, cudda... but the main thing is he DIDNT, because Fernando and Michael DID...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I have never said he breaks only his engines. He breaks driveshafts and suspensions also. This is not to say all his engine failures are his fault, but enough of them seem to be that it forms a pattern of sorts.

I disagree that his WDC is overdue. He hasn't demonstrated the patience or mechanical sympathy needed to become a WDC. All he knows is 'go fast'. Admirable, but that alone doesn't win a WDC.

Driveshafts and suspension failure is NOT Kimi's fault. Have you got some proof he does'nt have patience and so-called mechanical sympathy? Have you got proof all he knows is to go fast. All your statements are irrelevant, Kimi will demonstrate these qualities in a car capable of winning the titles, Alonso also did'nt "show these qualities" until he had the car...

[Jem of the Shire 0]

So now people are accusing kimi of breaking not only his engine but also other parts of his car???? If this rubbish was actually true, why would renault mclaren and ferrari all be desperate to sign him?

And I'll say again (stating the obvious really) - a F1 car should be designed to be able to be driven to its absolute limit lap after lap.

Its funny that alonso gets praise for banging in fast laps all race, yet now kimi is getting criticised for driving too fast.

You guys have no evidence at all. Mclaren or mercedes have NEVER even hinted that any failures are the fault of the driver - probably because its such a ridiculous notion. Kimi drives the hell out of the car because he needs to if he's going to have any chance of winning. His car should be able to withstand it.

And as for someone saying 'kimi is a race-winner not a wdc' I remind you again he came within 2 points of it in 2003 so you must agree he's surely close to being a potential wdc!!!

I'm not a kimi fan at all, but I have to argue strongly against these proposterous accusations.

[demonhorse 0]

Driveshafts and suspension failure is NOT Kimi's fault. Have you got some proof he does'nt have patience and so-called mechanical sympathy? Have you got proof all he knows is to go fast. All your statements are irrelevant, Kimi will demonstrate these qualities in a car capable of winning the titles, Alonso also did'nt "show these qualities" until he had the car...

and do you have any proof that he DOES have these qualities?

Didn't think so....

FYI Alonso showed EXACTLY these qualities at Minardi, why else would he pretty much go from Minardi straight to Renault?

You guys have no evidence at all. Mclaren or mercedes have NEVER even hinted that any failures are the fault of the driver

How much money have they invested in him with very little return?

Would you admit making such a bad decision????

[Jem of the Shire 0]

FYI Alonso showed EXACTLY these qualities at Minardi, why else would he pretty much go from Minardi straight to Renault?

Briatore had already signed him up and placed him at minardi for a year. Alonso's performance at minardi was flattered by the fact that his team-mate was arguably the crappest f1 driver we've seen for about 10 years, Tarso Marques.

I hope my post earlier on has convinced you a little bit that you are very mistaken on your thoughts about raikkonen

How much money have they invested in him with very little return?

Would you admit making such a bad decision????

very little return? what makes u say that? kimi has given mclaren nearly all its wins and points since he joined! He was only beaten in 2002 in his first year with the team

I don't know where you get these crazy ideas, I'm starting to think that your anti-Kimi bias is showing because your comments are getting more ludicrous!!

[demonhorse 0]

Briatore had already signed him up and placed him at minardi for a year. Alonso's performance at minardi was flattered by the fact that his team-mate was arguably the crappest f1 driver we've seen for about 10 years, Tarso Marques.

I hope my post earlier on has convinced you a little bit that you are very mistaken on your thoughts about raikkonen

You have about as much chance of convincing me as I have of convincing you otherwise. I've accepted this so why can't you? I've never stopped you making your case, just don't ask me to agree until we all seen Raikkonen with a WDC, as that is what would be most likely to change my mind.

very little return? what makes u say that? kimi has given mclaren nearly all its wins and points since he joined! He was only beaten in 2002 in his first year with the team

The way I understand it he was brought in with a view to becoming a champion, replacing the SUPERIOR FINN Mika Hakkinen... and he hasn't delivered that yet. My statement stands.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I don't know where you get these crazy ideas, I'm starting to think that your anti-Kimi bias is showing because your comments are getting more ludicrous!!

His comments on Kimi was ridiculous from day one and he gets more bolder when guys like APuma suggest Kimi's "mistakes".

[Eduan 0]

I still think Kimi doen't break his toys!!Mclaren just had failed to produce a relaible enough car to win the 2005 chmpionship.It was down to the car and if you want to be champ you gonna drive the wheels of it and the car must be able ti withstand some punnishment!

[demonhorse 0]

His comments on Kimi was ridiculous from day one and he gets more bolder when guys like APuma suggest Kimi's "mistakes".

Why don't you get your head from out your a## and just accept that I 'dare' to have an opinion different to yours. I've not stopped anyone else believing what they want, I'm just explaining my opinion which is more than some here have done. I don't expect anyone else here to change their mind, as I know I'm not going to.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Why don't you get your head from out your a## and just accept that I 'dare' to have an opinion different to yours. I've not stopped anyone else believing what they want, I'm just explaining my opinion which is more than some here have done. I don't expect anyone else here to change their mind, as I know I'm not going to.

I hear you, but as Jem pointed out your comments are to the point of being ludricous (and no substance). In short, your comments regarding Kimi suck... Unfortunately it's a reflection of your mind and i'm just trying to steer you in a better direction and better debate...

Take comfort in the fact i'm trying to help you....

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Why don't you get your head from out your a## and just accept that I 'dare' to have an opinion different to yours. I've not stopped anyone else believing what they want, I'm just explaining my opinion which is more than some here have done. I don't expect anyone else here to change their mind, as I know I'm not going to.

But it seems like all the evidence is against your opinion!

Hakkinen won the title in 98 and 99, when mclaren had easily the best car. Still a great driver of course. The 2002,03,04 mclarens were FAR from being the best car. In 2005, the mclaren was the best car at most circuits but mechanical reliability let him down and prevented him from really challenging for the title. I think kimi should be given a lot of credit for the consistency he showed in 2003 - yes he benefited from the points system but the mclaren was clearly not generally as fast as the ferrari or williams (and sometimes the renault).

Kimi has given mclaren everything they could possibly get. He has pretty much thrashed DC and Montoya in the same cars so I don't know what more you can expect. How can argue that he should've given more, when his team-mates have usually been so far behind?

[Jean Todt 4]

You have about as much chance of convincing me as I have of convincing you otherwise. I've accepted this so why can't you? I've never stopped you making your case, just don't ask me to agree until we all seen Raikkonen with a WDC, as that is what would be most likely to change my mind.

The way I understand it he was brought in with a view to becoming a champion, replacing the SUPERIOR FINN Mika Hakkinen... and he hasn't delivered that yet. My statement stands.

weather you are convinced or not...your remarks on kimi is crap!

mika himself has admitted that given the right tool kimi could kick a##.....well....have you read the feb2004 f1 racing interview with mika...did you read his comments on kimi and other drivers? when mika himself has put blame on the car and not kimi i wonder why the hell should we be convinced by you....even if (when) kimi wins the wdc i am sure you will have some excuse or the other to say that it was a fluke

[Jem of the Shire 0]

demonhorse, in 1999 DC had terrible reliability - do you think that is also the driver's fault? despite usually being slower than his team-mate?

[Jean Todt 4]

But it seems like all the evidence is against your opinion!

Hakkinen won the title in 98 and 99, when mclaren had easily the best car. Still a great driver of course. The 2002,03,04 mclarens were FAR from being the best car. In 2005, the mclaren was the best car at most circuits but mechanical reliability let him down and prevented him from really challenging for the title. I think kimi should be given a lot of credit for the consistency he showed in 2003 - yes he benefited from the points system but the mclaren was clearly not generally as fast as the ferrari or williams (and sometimes the renault).

Kimi has given mclaren everything they could possibly get. He has pretty much thrashed DC and Montoya in the same cars so I don't know what more you can expect. How can argue that he should've given more, when his team-mates have usually been so far behind?

there is no use in trying to argue with him...you can talk to the wall...no matter what we say hes still going to keep arguing and justyfying himself....am getting bored reading his useless post...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

there is no use in trying to argue with him...you can talk to the wall...no matter what we say hes still going to keep arguing and justyfying himself....am getting bored reading his useless post...

Spot on!