Does Kimi Break His Toys?

[Autumnpuma 0]

Good debate. Keep 'em coming!

Kool, I've made my case in a few threads. Go find them if you're interested. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No harm there. But as I said, my opinions are being echoed in a number of forums and that shows other people are at least thinking the same thing I am. Of course it's possible they read my comments here and posted there...

[QWERTY 0]

May be the team is showing the way out for KR since next yr FA is comming to mclaren. Or it could be just bad luck.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

An F1 engine needs to withstand being driven hard for 2 races. Its not kimi's fault if the engines are breaking, he's just doing his job. He needs to race as hard as he can to stand any chance of beating the renaults, can't blame the driver. This is motorsport after all, its racing

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Good debate. Keep 'em coming!

Kool, I've made my case in a few threads. Go find them if you're interested. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No harm there. But as I said, my opinions are being echoed in a number of forums and that shows other people are at least thinking the same thing I am. Of course it's possible they read my comments here and posted there...

there's some very good questions being thrown at you Autumn, why don't you try and answer those, or is it, as you say, answered in all the other forums

a very good point being brought up, why did'nt he break engines at Sauber and suddenly appears to be now...

Peter S once mentioned Kimi is THE smoothest driver around, to go from that to an engine breaker, very hard to believe mate

This is motorsport after all, its racing

It's the "pinnacle" of Motorsport, the highest form of racing, and they expect a driver to back down because the engine "might be fragile" Jem... How Merc gets away from being the scapegoat here, i don't know....

[c21 0]

How Merc gets away from being the scapegoat here, i don't know....

Dead right,

No engine failures until he had a Merc behind him.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Too add to that, I've seen countless dozens of quotes from various other teams (Pat Symonds comes to mind), also saying words to the effect of how unreliable the McLaren was last year. Not one person anywhere, ever even brought up the notion that it was Kimi causing the engine failures.

Then there's all the press over the years on how smooth a driver Button is. You know where I'm going with this one don't you... where's the "pundits" saying he caused the engine failures !?

[cavallino 2]

Exactly KM, it's the fact that I haven't a single word like that outside forums that makes me doubtful. Plenty of evidence of course - the same thing that happened in the race happened in a Mclaren on Thursday - Kimi's Mclaren. I remain firmly undecided.

[demonhorse 0]

I'm still not convinced it's the engine, simply because Montoya lasted a good chunk of the year without breaking his. If the engine was as crap and unreliable as people keep saying, surely Montoya (who is known for engine breaking in other formula, apparently) would have had just as many engine breaks as Kimi, if not more.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I'm still not convinced it's the engine, simply because Montoya lasted a good chunk of the year without breaking his. If the engine was as crap and unreliable as people keep saying, surely Montoya (who is known for engine breaking in other formula, apparently) would have had just as many engine breaks as Kimi, if not more.

yes but I refer again to BAR in 2004 - sato's engine kept blowing up nearly every race, and Button's was always fine. The team stated that there was no way it could have been influenced by the driver. Perhaps there is the same situation at mclaren - kimi has been unluckier than JPM. Maybe he's used more revs, maybe he's driven harder - but he still cannot be held at fault for 'overdriving' the engine, cos an F1 engine should be able to be raced super-hard and last the distance

[BradSpeedMan 6]

kimi has been unluckier than JPM. Maybe he's used more revs, maybe he's driven harder -

case in point this year, Jpm is nowhere near Kimi this year in an uncompetitive car with an engine that last, his laptimes suck, and his mistake prone...

Montoya had 2 retirements last year, but notice the similiarities between him and Kimi's engine failures...

Hungary- Juan Pablo Montoya: "I think that it was a driveshaft that broke, which is just one of those things that happen when you are pushing everything to the limit like we are at the moment.

Notice - pushing everything to the limit, and this is Montoya speaking

French GP- Juan Pablo Montoya: "I was really enjoying this race, and am disappointed to retire. I started to lose the power steering and then the gears which is what happens with a hydraulic failure so there was nothing I could do.

[Autumnpuma 0]

there's some very good questions being thrown at you Autumn, why don't you try and answer those, or is it, as you say, answered in all the other forums

a very good point being brought up, why did'nt he break engines at Sauber and suddenly appears to be now...

Peter S once mentioned Kimi is THE smoothest driver around, to go from that to an engine breaker, very hard to believe mate

It's the "pinnacle" of Motorsport, the highest form of racing, and they expect a driver to back down because the engine "might be fragile" Jem... How Merc gets away from being the scapegoat here, i don't know....

No, they are answered in this forum. Click on my name and look for 'em if you want to read them.

As for Sauber, he had many mistakes, but I excuse that in a rookie. And Brad, I think you and I got into this on another thread...and perhaps I'm still waiting for you to make your case..?

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

so next year you will see, how Alonso manages with Mclaren.

Kimi's driving style is actually best ever in formula one, so Alonso is going to have a LOT more problems there.

But I guess next year nobody will be blaiming Alonso. It is only Mclaren, that sucks...

[demonhorse 0]

so next year you will see, how Alonso manages with Mclaren.

Kimi's driving style is actually best ever in formula one,

riiiight.. thats why he's a multi-time champion and never beaten of course... Race Winner he may be, but champion... I doubt it.

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

riiiight.. thats why he's a multi-time champion and never beaten of course... Race Winner he may be, but champion... I doubt it.

It is commonly known fact, that Alonso's driving style is 'awkward'. He has a good pace, when car is perfect to his driving style. But when not, he is is real trouble. Renault has been capable of delivering him almost perfect car. Do you think Mclaren can do it next year?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

riiiight.. thats why he's a multi-time champion and never beaten of course... Race Winner he may be, but champion... I doubt it.

How can you say that when he (kimi) was only 2 points away from being the world champion in 2003??

[nojvnof1 0]

in the MP4-17D!!! Stunning season by Raikkonen that was!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

in the MP4-17D!!! Stunning season by Raikkonen that was!

He drove for most of the season in that development car, his pace was .5 to 1 second off the Ferrari's pace, later the BMW too. Shows you what he can do if the engine is reliable, but it did rear it's ugly head when he was leading at Nurburgring and the engine failed, that was his championship gone.

[cavallino 2]

He benefited from reliability and a screwed up points system, really that season was williams' to win.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

He benefited from reliability and a screwed up points system, really that season was williams' to win.

Is'nt the point system still the same, or did it change, can't remember? Well, Williams in the latter half of the season had the best package. You agree the engine was reliable for a change, although a bit off the pace, good!

Btw, Coulthard was 7th in the champion standings....

[cavallino 2]

It's the same, but we haven't had a close championship since. That year really showed up the worst of the system, with Kimi having 1 win to Michael's 6 iirc.

[Jean Todt 4]

The Ferrari engines were sub quality and were also not being run at maximum capacity.

Can you remember the last time an engine broke in a Sauber?

But I have checked....

In 2001

KR had 10 finishes, 7 retirements, 3 were accidents

NH had 11 finishes, 6 retirements, 6 were accidents

Was Kimi harder than Nick?

Im not sure what to think, Kimi had 4 mechanical failures to Nicks 0.

Maybe that says something.

what sort of mechanical failures...engine? gearbox? or eloctronic related? or suspension?

[c21 0]

what sort of mechanical failures...engine? gearbox? or eloctronic related? or suspension?

Read a little further down and you will see.

[Jean Todt 4]

mercs have been blowing up ever since they enterd f1 partnering mclaren.....guys who bash kimi do not remember how mikas enigine used to blow up many times when he was in a good position to win, am sure he could have won the 2000 season if only his enigine was reliable, but i must admit during 2001 ferrari were simply too quick...cut it out guys! kimi is so monterio kind of guy, hes being paid to drive to the limit and not the paying guy who is enjoying his drive to the finish line....

Ok, Ive done some more digging.

I looked on the F1 website archives

From what i can see, Kimi had no engine failures. (and no heatshield fires)

In Malaysia he had transmission failure

In San marino his steering wheel fell off.

In Germany he had a halfshaft failure. (I guess thats a driveshaft, maybe someone can clear that one up for me.)

In the USA he had a driveshaft failure

In Belgium he had transmission failure

Im not sure what this says for Kimi breaking his car, but I do know that with the steering wheel, it was found that if you were too agressive with it, it was possible to pull it off without using the quick release.

Which way do you guys see it?

Im still an unsure.

ho...thanx! cleared...its machinery not driver(thats the way i see it)

[BradSpeedMan 6]

It's the same, but we haven't had a close championship since. That year really showed up the worst of the system, with Kimi having 1 win to Michael's 6 iirc.

Michael was in his worst start to a season position, he made crucial mistakes during the start to the season. The only way Kimi could benefit was by being consistent in a car that was not on par to Ferrari or Williams, THE WHOLE YEAR. Michael was able to close the gap by accumulating race wins, because he could in a very good and capable car. Do i need to exaggerate on these points even further so you might understand how good Kimi performed Cav, or is it a liitle bit clearer to you now?

[demonhorse 0]

How can you say that when he (kimi) was only 2 points away from being the world champion in 2003??

I can say it quite easily.

Kimi is the eternal nearly-man of F1...

People here have actually said he IS champion, and this is obviously wrong. He is good, and a race winner, but to call him a champion is massively overrating him, however close he has got in the past.