Williams Retain Karthikeyan

[Max Mosley 2]

Of course we all enjoy having a laugh at his expense but should we not equally be saddened by the demise of Williams?

Of course. If they need money then Karty can be useful but its very sad that its come to this. Personally I think the whole structure of F1 is flawed. I'd rather the teams either ceased to exist or were given standardised cars, which would solve this problem. Alas its not going to happen any time soon, if ever.

Bob, why don't you bob up and kiss my a$$

Illene, I lean over and you kiss my a$$

Stupid, i know

Good stuff Bruce! I'll ask Bob tonight.

Mr. Murray Walker, what you meant by the word bachelor is irrelevant. To your third question, the probability of one of the outcomes happening is also not one, because you can not prove mathematically the certainty of any of those events happening. Greater minds than yours have applied themselves to this problem and the relationship between probability and certainty. Well you have your viewpoint on this, and I have mine so lets leave it at that.

Your comment on Indians is unwarranted, my opinion of you which was good enough is unfortunately lessened. I choose not to take your bait

Lay off

Cheif, this is not a claim I am making, go look it up, look up probability and certainty, look up Lewis - Reichenbach, look up "almost surely" events, instead of making half @ssed comments

I think you are wrong on almost every count. An unmarried man is unmarried with probability one, if the statement is to have any meaning. On my third question the probability that anything or nothing happens is always one. Likewise the probability that I am either completely right or not is one. I rather doubt greater minds than mine have ever thought about anything. We do have great fun with the Indians, with probability one. Lewis and Reichenbach were debating whether it was necessary to have certainty to make a probabilistic statement, not whether probability can ever be one. Interestingly, and I didn't know this before, "almost surely" events are not certain yet still have probability one!

[cavallino 2]

A sad, spoiled and pathetic brat, that's all he is

No he is a driver trying to do what he thinks is the best for himself, you are the sad spoilt pathetic brat

[bajo39 0]

Of course. If they need money then Karty can be useful but its very sad that its come to this. Personally I think the whole structure of F1 is flawed.

Well it's clear that they do need money and that the Indian, in this capacity alone, is useful to them. I agree with your assessment as to the structure of F1 needing repairs. Surely something must be done to prevent the desperately underqualified from diluting the talent pool. The only question to my mind is whether to attack the source of the problem, the extreme financial burden of competing in F1 that causes the teams to take such drastic measures, or to attack the problem itself by, for example, imposing tougher standards for granting of Super Licenses. Maybe working on both ends is the answer

Stopkidding: Although it is noble of you do defend your countryman, I think it is pretty pathetic that you fail to realise what absolutely all mentally sane BB non-Indian members (except for Cav) have known/realised, NK is only there due to TATA's money and not his talent.

I am pretty sure that any less than almost-mediocre driver could walk up to the Williams factory without a check for $3.0M and snatch the 'job' in front of NK's nose. He is there only for reasons relating to stubborness from both TATA and himself. Had his ego not been as inflated he would have taken the sensible route in November 05 and gone to A1 or whatever. No point in not racing and hardly even testing. A sad, spoiled and pathetic brat, that's all he is

I don't like Narain anymore. Read in the papers that he's helping out the "Indian" A1 gp team in an ad-hoc way. He's selected an absolute twat of a driver whose dad ensured him plenty of drives last year.

Narain's career in F1 is as good as over. He had a chance last year to make an impression. He ended up being too erratic, even if faster. He should have outshone Tiago, but botched it up. For e.g in the Indy "race" , he should have come third to make any sort of impression.

He will end up being another guy with failed F1 dreams.

What career? He was paying to drive for Jordan and now he's paying to do promotional work for Williams. That doesn't constitute a racing career anymore than my paying to race sports cars does.

[goferrarigo 0]

Mr. Murray Walker, what you meant by the word bachelor is irrelevant. To your third question, the probability of one of the outcomes happening is also not one, because you can not prove mathematically the certainty of any of those events happening. Greater minds than yours have applied themselves to this problem and the relationship between probability and certainty. Well you have your viewpoint on this, and I have mine so lets leave it at that.

Hey mock; where is the answer to my comment about the probability of probabilty of being one is one???

[stopkidding 0]

I think it is fair to say that it has long since been established that all of mock's claims leads to a contradiction.

Stopkidding: Although it is noble of you do defend your countryman, I think it is pretty pathetic that you fail to realise what absolutely all mentally sane BB members have known/realised, NK is only there due to TATA's money and not his talent. I am pretty sure that any less than almost-mediocre driver could rock up to the Williams factory with a check for $2.9 and snatch the 'job' in front of NK's nose. He is there only for reasons relating to stubborness from both TATA and himself. Had his ego not been as inflated he would have taken the sensible route in November 05 and gone to A1 or whatever. No point in not racing and hardly even testing. A sad, spoiled and pathetic brat, that's all he is

I disagree with you Ctrl. The question is not NK's talent. He is an average bottom of the pool driver at best. You will never find me saying anything other than that. All I am saying is, he is no better or worse than a lot of the pay drivers in F1 at the moment or in the past. But still he is qualified enough to occupy a testing role.

What annoys me is the fact that Narain is being singled out in the whole issue. What better example than Sato do you need when it comes to Pay drivers? He couldn't keep a seat at Honda so with the backing of friends and countrymen and Honda they started Super Best Friends and fill the team with the likes of Ide Yamamoto????? You find that less absurd than Narain testing for Williams and carrying his sponsorship to the team?

Why hasn't anyone given me a single merit based argument? Narain has come from the country with quite simply the least motorsport friendly atmosphere, built his name in various junior championships and earned a test drive with Jordan and Minardi (Obviously for pay drives). How is it any different from anyone who has driven for these teams?

My real problem is not with Narain testing for Williams, it is with people on this forum (especially Bajo-licious) who are racist and bigotted. The is Narain issue is only my vehicle to challenge his bullcrap. I am yet to hear 1 argument that is based on merit and not prejudice. No I am not going to search some obscure thread from before the last season! (which would be asburd because, I don't think Bajo knew anything about NK at that time)

This is an open challenge to produce evidence based on merit and not opinion.

[Max Mosley 2]

Btw its really the Indians who are racist. How come they all support a driver who brings the sport into disrepute? It is they who are prejudiced, in this case in favour of someone like themselves over and above anybody with a different skin colour or nationality. The rest of us just give an assessment of a driver's potential.

Oh regarding that challenge, I've never said Karty is the worst pay driver in recent times. Ide probably beats him to it. The point is that all drivers of that level of "skill" should be banned.

[bajo39 0]

My real problem is not with Narain testing for Williams, it is with people on this forum (especially Bajo-licious) who are racist and bigotted. The is Narain issue is only my vehicle to challenge his bullcrap. I am yet to hear 1 argument that is based on merit and not prejudice. No I am not going to search some obscure thread from before the last season! (which would be asburd because, I don't think Bajo knew anything about NK at that time)

This is an open challenge to produce evidence based on merit and not opinion.

Aren't you the one who was making the nigger jokes in the other thread and implying that Americans are stupid? How is it that you accuse me of being racist when I have never said anything of the kind? Isn't it more likely that I criticise Narain because he is a disgrace to F1, a disgrace to Williams and an arrogant prick than because of some imagined prejudice against Indians? Have you not seen or heard of my criticism of Sato or Monteiro? Perhaps you should ask long-time members of the forum before you go volleying accusations based on limited experience.

As to your challenge - the consensus is that Narain is a pile of crap, better only than Yamamoto. It is therefore up to you to prove otherwise.

[goferrarigo 0]

i think this thread needs to be shut(locked) before ppl start maing their attacks more personal

[cavallino 2]

stopkidding - don't bother, none of this lot is interested in a discussion, all they'll do is keep baiting you with bulls##t. Not worth it, it's like trying to have a discussion with a pub brawler and his mates, he'll simply respond with a stupid retort and his hanger ons will laugh. None of these prize idiots in over an year have made a single[i/] attempt to analyse Narain's driving and present a rational argument. Mike will soon be around telling us how important and wonderful bajo is to the forum and that you should not question him. None of them are interested in the slightest in making an assertion that will stand up to any scrutiny, it is all baiting and bulls##t. Just do a search if you want to see, this stuff has a long long history, amazingly just about all normally rational members just echo this bulls##t - pumpdoc, ecapdeville etc., and simply respond with inane bulls##t. There are some who tried to take a reasonable position, unfortunately they are not around. There is no point arguing with these fools.

[bajo39 0]

stopkidding - don't bother, none of this lot is interested in a discussion, all they'll do is keep baiting you with bulls##t. Not worth it, it's like trying to have a discussion with a pub brawler and his mates, he'll simply respond with a stupid retort and his hanger ons will laugh. None of these prize idiots in over an year have made a single[i/] attempt to analyse Narain's driving and present a rational argument. Mike will soon be around telling us how important and wonderful bajo is to the forum and that you should not question him. None of them are interested in the slightest in making an assertion that will stand up to any scrutiny, it is all baiting and bulls##t. Just do a search if you want to see, this stuff has a long long history, amazingly just about all normally rational members just echo this bulls##t - pumpdoc, ecapdeville etc., and simply respond with inane bulls##t. There are some who tried to take a reasonable position, unfortunately they are not around. There is no point arguing with these fools.

[Max Mosley 2]

[stopkidding 0]

Btw its really the Indians who are racist. How come they all support a driver who brings the sport into disrepute? It is they who are prejudiced, in this case in favour of someone like themselves over and above anybody with a different skin colour or nationality. The rest of us just give an assessment of a driver's potential.

Oh regarding that challenge, I've never said Karty is the worst pay driver in recent times. Ide probably beats him to it. The point is that all drivers of that level of "skill" should be banned.

How does he bring the sport into disrepute when its been going on for ages? why single out Narain? Who is being racist here? Does he stink because he is the first non-white non-latin F1 driver?

agree about Ide!

[goferrarigo 0]

Please could someone shut this thread. No point in making enemes. we are all here coz we love the sport and the direction of this thread is not promising. So please

[Max Mosley 2]

How does he bring the sport into disrepute when its been going on for ages? why single out Narain? Who is being racist here? Does he stink because he is the first non-white non-latin F1 driver?

agree about Ide!

Lets say I'm into killing people of a certain race. If I keep doing it when does it cease to be genocide? Likewise Karty is just the latest in a long line of stains on our sport. Your final question is the most interesting and my answer is that I don't know why he's so bad. Of course he's not the first non-white non-latin F1 driver though. Glad we agree on something!

[stopkidding 0]

Aren't you the one who was making the nigger jokes in the other thread and implying that Americans are stupid? How is it that you accuse me of being racist when I have never said anything of the kind? Isn't it more likely that I criticise Narain because he is a disgrace to F1, a disgrace to Williams and an arrogant prick than because of some imagined prejudice against Indians? Have you not seen or heard of my criticism of Sato or Monteiro? Perhaps you should ask long-time members of the forum before you go volleying accusations based on limited experience.

As to your challenge - the consensus is that Narain is a pile of crap, better only than Yamamoto. It is therefore up to you to prove otherwise.

I have nothing but undying love for your hotness!

the joke is on someone else

Lets say I'm into killing people of a certain race. If I keep doing it when does it cease to be genocide? Likewise Karty is just the latest in a long line of stains on our sport. Your final question is the most interesting and my answer is that I don't know why he's so bad. Of course he's not the first non-white non-latin F1 driver though. Glad we agree on something!

I repeat for the hundreth time, funny not one seems to be able to read, if Narain is testing for Williams, they probably are doing it because he is a decent enough test driver for the job. Remember Williams have had much worse test drivers in the past. The money he brings from Tata is so insignificant that a team of the status of Williams would not ruin their development program by putting a useless tester. I have repeatedly shown how insignificant TATA's sponsorship is. Surely the people at Patrick Head and Frank Williams know a thing or two about running a team (maybe not as much as the HOT BAJO ) but enough to know that a decent test driver is the key to having a successful development program.

Atleast he is the first BROWN man to make it in the "ELITIST" European F1 circles.

[bajo39 0]

How does he bring the sport into disrepute when its been going on for ages? why single out Narain? Who is being racist here? Does he stink because he is the first non-white non-latin F1 driver?

agree about Ide!

F1 purportedly espouses to be the pinnacle of racing with the best cars and the best drivers, racing on the best circuits. Having an under-qualified driver like Narain associated with the series - particularly in countries like India where the fans are new to the sport and don't realize that Karthikeyan is an unfortunate anomaly in talent terms - brings into question the quality of the series as a whole. This is unacceptable to those among us who truly love and respect the support and will not sit quite as its reputation is tarnished.

To answer your second and third questions, Narain stinks because he stinks. It has nothing to do with his ethnic background. Murray and I have been highly critical of drivers of Japanese, Austrian, American, Portugese and Colombian descent also. You (Indian) guys just get more excited about it than the defenders of the various other drivers.

[stopkidding 0]

stopkidding - don't bother, none of this lot is interested in a discussion, all they'll do is keep baiting you with bulls##t. Not worth it, it's like trying to have a discussion with a pub brawler and his mates, he'll simply respond with a stupid retort and his hanger ons will laugh. None of these prize idiots in over an year have made a single[i/] attempt to analyse Narain's driving and present a rational argument. Mike will soon be around telling us how important and wonderful bajo is to the forum and that you should not question him. None of them are interested in the slightest in making an assertion that will stand up to any scrutiny, it is all baiting and bulls##t. Just do a search if you want to see, this stuff has a long long history, amazingly just about all normally rational members just echo this bulls##t - pumpdoc, ecapdeville etc., and simply respond with inane bulls##t. There are some who tried to take a reasonable position, unfortunately they are not around. There is no point arguing with these fools.

yep, I have known that for a while. Its not a new phenomenon, People try to over compensate for the failures in their real life by assuming secret super human personalities on the Web. Haven't you heard the case about Sexy Sarah being a 40 year fat housewife?

The distinction between a porsche or a beat up chevy pickup is not very clear on the Internet.

[bajo39 0]

The distinction between a porsche or a beat up chevy pickup is not very clear on the Internet.

What are you getting at?

[stopkidding 0]

F1 purportedly espouses to be the pinnacle of racing with the best cars and the best drivers, racing on the best circuits. Having an under-qualified driver like Narain associated with the series - particularly in countries like India where the fans are new to the sport and don't realize that Karthikeyan is an unfortunate anomaly in talent terms - brings into question the quality of the series as a whole. This is unacceptable to those among us who truly love and respect the support and will not sit quite as its reputation is tarnished.

To answer your second and third questions, Narain stinks because he stinks. It has nothing to do with his ethnic background. Murray and I have been highly critical of drivers of Japanese, Austrian, American, Portugese and Colombian descent also. You (Indian) guys just get more excited about it than the defenders of the various other drivers.

yes your hotness, the case here is not so much about Narain as much as it is about senseless ridicule about an average driver who is no better or worse than any other pay driver on the circuit. Your assumed air of erudition is the cause of my support for Narain., I am making this very personal and I am making it obvious. This is about much more than Narain (who I couldn't care less about when he raced). But you cannot change the truth about his talent or his resume. The people in the know make decisions that affect his future.

As for the quality of the drivers in F1, its shows how little you understand the sport. You will never have 22 Schumachers, Alonso's or Kimi's lining up the grid. If your really knew the sport, then you will find that throughout the history, starting from year 1 race 1, the back of the grid has been filled with mediocre drivers. But all you want to do is claim some moral and intellectual superiority and pick up different names from different eras and glorify your presence by associating with them. That is so elementary school stuff.

Why don't you grow up and present arguments and fact rather than bias and prejudice?

Please could someone shut this thread. No point in making enemes. we are all here coz we love the sport and the direction of this thread is not promising. So please

Some of us are adults, dont worry my friend . We are here because we love the sport, we want to be here because we love the sport, meanwhile somewhere in the middle we have trolls who need some recognition online to compensate for some personal anamoly, this makes is less fun for others. I am merely standing up for some sense on the forum!

[goferrarigo 0]

Some of us are adults, dont worry my friend . We are here because we love the sport, we want to be here because we love the sport, meanwhile somewhere in the middle we have trolls who need some recognition online to compensate for some personal anamoly, this makes is less fun for others. I am merely standing up for some sense on the forum!

And all i am standing for is PEACE on this forum.

to cav: methinks this thread is full of bulls##t now.

[monza gorilla 1]

Remember Williams have had much worse test drivers in the past.

Just out of curiosity, who might they be? I'm not remotely interested in this Narain business, but I did notice that line in your post and it set me wondering.

[stopkidding 0]

Just out of curiosity, who might they be? I'm not remotely interested in this Narain business, but I did notice that line in your post and it set me wondering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Gene

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Pizzonia

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fmLIQiB8Aao

Should I continue?

[monza gorilla 1]

No need. We obviously have differing views on the merits of those drivers. I wouldn't say that they are "much worse" than Narain.

[stopkidding 0]

No need. We obviously have differing views on the merits of those drivers. I wouldn't say that they are "much worse" than Narain.

Ok I agree, not necessarily worse, but with similar credentials? Is that fair? If you compare their records, they have achieved about the same before buying their drives with Minardi and Jordan...

[monza gorilla 1]

Prior to entering F1? Yes, that's fair. I do think that Gene is better than Pizza Boy though.

And now it's pub time. See you all after quali.