Williams Retain Karthikeyan

[pabloh20 1]

Really? Much of the forum sees you lot as arguing against what is plainly obvious, ie that Narain doesn't belong in F1, but in favour of your countryman and we all know how crazily nationalistic Indians are, and especially the media. I guess they would have quite an easy job of indoctrinating you lot given that F1 isn't even broadcast and the country has no history with the sport. Hmmm, maybe they have?

Bajo - who exactly are 'my lot' and who are 'my countrymen' ?

Also, if you can see any reference whatsoever to me saying if NK deserves his seat or not, then please feel free to show me.

[monza gorilla 1]

I detect a faux pas from our Canadian correspondent, n'est-ce pas?

[pabloh20 1]

I detect a faux pas from our Canadian correspondent, n'est-ce pas?

Well, it does make you wonder doesn't it Monza Gorilla?

[bajo39 0]

I detect a faux pas from our Canadian correspondent, n'est-ce pas?

Sorry, I've got this bloody woman yammering in my ear...

What is this faux pas you speak of? Describing the Indians as a "lot"? Poor form you say? Bollocks! They are all of the same opinion on this matter. In such circumstances it is appropriate to group them for purposes of discussion. Their 'lot' is of one view and I am of another.

Also, if you can see any reference whatsoever to me saying if NK deserves his seat or not, then please feel free to show me.

Are you of the view that Narain deserves a spot in F1 or not?

[pumpdoc 2]

Why is so much bandwith wasted over Narain?

[monza gorilla 1]

Oh I don't know. Empty vessels and all that. Dan, I don't think Pabloh20 hails from that area of the world. Just a hunch.

[pabloh20 1]

Sorry, I've got this bloody woman yammering in my ear...

What is this faux pas you speak of? Describing the Indians as a "lot"? Poor form you say? Bollocks! They are all of the same opinion on this matter. In such circumstances it is appropriate to group them for purposes of discussion. Their 'lot' is of one view and I am of another.

Again, answer the question - who are 'my lot' and who are 'my countrymen' ?

Are you of the view that Narain deserves a spot in F1 or not?

That isn't the point really is it ? You said I argued against 'the plainly obvious' referring to whether NK deserves his seat or not, so please show me where I said that.

[bajo39 0]

Oh I don't know. Empty vessels and all that. Dan, I don't think Pabloh20 hails from that area of the world. Just a hunch.

Aye.

[pabloh20 1]

Aye.

Awww, come on Bajo, I really, really want to hear you say it - who are 'my lot' and 'my countrymen' ?

[bajo39 0]

Awww, come on Bajo, I really, really want to hear you say it - who are 'my lot' and 'my countrymen' ?

Sorry, these bloody women, honestly!

Look, I'm not going to have you diverting this thread from the important discussion that was taking place. If in another thread you want to announce your nationality and distinguish yourself from the Narain-loving Indians then that is fine, keep it in the Cafe, but not here. Whether you are a part of that lot or another is of no relevance to the discussion at hand and that you chose to concentrate on this irrelevant tidbit shows how little faith you have in your position. In fact, it is downright deceitful of you to try and hijack this thread from the wide-ranging philosophical debate it was into a petty argument over minutiae - and irrelevant minutiae at that. I would suggest that you instead focus your powerful mind on considering the thought-provoking wisdom that has been made available to you in this thread.

[goferrarigo 0]

Sorry, these bloody women, honestly!

Look, I'm not going to have you diverting this thread from the important discussion that was taking place. If in another thread you want to announce your nationality and distinguish yourself from the Narain-loving Indians then that is fine, keep it in the Cafe, but not here. Whether you are a part of that lot or another is of no relevance to the discussion at hand and that you chose to concentrate on this irrelevant tidbit shows how little faith you have in your position. In fact, it is downright deceitful of you to try and hijack this thread from the wide-ranging philosophical debate it was into a petty argument over minutiae - and irrelevant minutiae at that. I would suggest that you instead focus your powerful mind on considering the thought-provoking wisdom that has been made available to you in this thread.

Thanks for the laugh Bajo . What earth shattering discussion is going on. Weather NK should be a test or not?? Wait that doesn't shtater the earth or in my books count as an importent discisson. He is in F1 accept it and move on. whateever you say cannot really change that can it????

[pabloh20 1]

Sorry, these bloody women, honestly!

Look, I'm not going to have you diverting this thread from the important discussion that was taking place. If in another thread you want to announce your nationality and distinguish yourself from the Narain-loving Indians then that is fine, keep it in the Cafe, but not here. Whether you are a part of that lot or another is of no relevance to the discussion at hand and that you chose to concentrate on this irrelevant tidbit shows how little faith you have in your position. In fact, it is downright deceitful of you to try and hijack this thread from the wide-ranging philosophical debate it was into a petty argument over minutiae - and irrelevant minutiae at that. I would suggest that you instead focus your powerful mind on considering the thought-provoking wisdom that has been made available to you in this thread.

It's ok, I accept your apology.

Strange, I thought it was you who originally made the comment about it, not me ?? So I suggest you heed your own advices.

Somehow, during this thread I have managed to state that I'm Indian, when I didn't and I've managed to argue that NK deserves his seat, when I obviously haven't made any reference to the fact - I'm doing pretty good I think!!!

Anyway, I think it says more about your 'indoctrination' because you thought I was arguing NK deserves his seat (even though I did not mention it at all) that I must be Indian.

By the way, when I spot anything even remotely wise & thought provoking coming from you, Bajo, I shall let you know - don't hold your breath, though!!

Thanks for the laugh Bajo . What earth shattering discussion is going on. Weather NK should be a test or not?? Wait that doesn't shtater the earth or in my books count as an importent discisson. He is in F1 accept it and move on. whateever you say cannot really change that can it????

So succinctly, put, AJ and so very true !!!

[bajo39 0]

Thanks for the laugh Bajo . What earth shattering discussion is going on. Weather NK should be a test or not?? Wait that doesn't shtater the earth or in my books count as an importent discisson. He is in F1 accept it and move on. whateever you say cannot really change that can it????

No sir. To the extent that something can be done, complacency is not the answer to get it done. In fact, we must gaurd against the sort of thinking you propose because complacency is an insidious sort of thing. It has been said that it creeps into our lives like a subtle haze, covering everything in a damp motionless blanket of indifference.

History is full of examples of the outcomes of complacent individuals. Albert Einstein wrote that

[goferrarigo 0]

So succinctly, put, AJ and so very true !!!

Thanks

No sir. To the extent that something can be done, complacency is not the answer to get it done. In fact, we must gaurd against the sort of thinking you propose because complacency is an insidious sort of thing. It has been said that it creeps into our lives like a subtle haze, covering everything in a damp motionless blanket of indifference.

History is full of examples of the outcomes of complacent individuals. Albert Einstein wrote that

[mock 0]

One is simply a more extreme form of national/racial bias than the other. I think this topic requires a more intellectual approach than is possible on this forum. In fact patriotism is often criticised in ethics because it is a weak form of discrimination. Anyway, perhaps it is best the hoi polloi are indoctrinated. The alternative is probably worse.

I will reply properly to the Indians when one of them takes up my main post's points. No doubt this will be left to the increasingly irate Cav.

this one too please

[mock 0]

Sorry, these bloody women, honestly!

Look, I'm not going to have you diverting this thread from the important discussion that was taking place. If in another thread you want to announce your nationality and distinguish yourself from the Narain-loving Indians then that is fine, keep it in the Cafe, but not here. Whether you are a part of that lot or another is of no relevance to the discussion at hand and that you chose to concentrate on this irrelevant tidbit shows how little faith you have in your position. In fact, it is downright deceitful of you to try and hijack this thread from the wide-ranging philosophical debate it was into a petty argument over minutiae - and irrelevant minutiae at that. I would suggest that you instead focus your powerful mind on considering the thought-provoking wisdom that has been made available to you in this thread.

If we are to enter into a debate about deceipt and petty arguments over irrelevant matters and the insulsity of certain individuals here indeed we cannot but fail to recognise and laud the ever increasing and never ceasing postulates furthered here by people who indeed think that they have great wisdom to impart to others whom they erroneously consider as unenlightened, but in reality continuously engage in the so canadian sport they enjoy so much of inserting ones own phalanges (albeit covered with flesh) into their very own orficices normally reserved for speech. I am sure that the postulates and crazed hypotheses furthered by these self inflated individuals are but just dark mirrors of their innermost torture that they are undergoing in recognising their own low self worth and their failures and further fuelled by the concrete knowledge that what they propose and state is equivalent to the excrement of the bovine species. The best possible response that the saner of the homo sapiens species (assuming, probably erroneously that the mentioned hapless individuals are remotely connected to the homo sapiens species) would be to treat the utterings of such individuals as not to be taken with any level of seriousness but to treat them with the disdain, contempt and scorn they deserve......

[bajo39 0]

It's ok, I accept your apology.

Cheers

If we are to enter into a debate about deceipt and petty arguments over irrelevant matters and the insulsity of certain individuals here indeed we cannot but fail to recognise and laud the ever increasing and never ceasing postulates furthered here by people who indeed think that they have great wisdom to impart to others whom they erroneously consider as unenlightened, but in reality continuously engage in the so canadian sport they enjoy so much of inserting ones own phalanges (albeit covered with flesh) into their very own orficices normally reserved for speech.

That was some sentence old boy

[Max Mosley 2]

No sir. To the extent that something can be done, complacency is not the answer to get it done. In fact, we must gaurd against the sort of thinking you propose because complacency is an insidious sort of thing. It has been said that it creeps into our lives like a subtle haze, covering everything in a damp motionless blanket of indifference.

History is full of examples of the outcomes of complacent individuals. Albert Einstein wrote that

[pabloh20 1]

The thing is, Bajo, I really can't make my mind up about this discussion, if I'm honest.

On one hand I can see what you mean about paid or sponsored drivers in F1 - I think we would all like to see drivers in F1 on merit, unless of course the driver that people want to kick out is the driver you support!

On the other hand, with regards to NK, I think $3m dollars (I think that's what you said) that he's bringing to the table could turn out to be not very viable economically, if he's not a very good driver - I don't know what price you would put on successful test drivers helping the team towards possibly a decent car, or vice versa. That and the fact that he's not an 'unknown quantity' would make me think that he must be ok as a test driver.

So, I guess I'm sitting on the fence on this one!!

By the way, Bajo, I looked at the link to the video of arnoux/villeneuve in your sig for the 1st time today. That's the sort of racing I would like to see in F1 again. I really can't remember that last time that an overtaken driver has fought back & got back past, aside from in changeable weather conditions. As I say, it is the racing I would like to see again, but I don't hold out much hope.

[Autumnpuma 0]

By the way, Bajo, I looked at the link to the video of arnoux/villeneuve in your sig for the 1st time today. That's the sort of racing I would like to see in F1 again. I really can't remember that last time that an overtaken driver has fought back & got back past, aside from in changeable weather conditions. As I say, it is the racing I would like to see again, but I don't hold out much hope.

A return to mechanical grip would do it. The '08 rules mostly put us in the right direction...

[bajo39 0]

Indeed Dan. I've learnt a lot in this thread about human nature. I see Albert beat me to it.

Indeed Murray. As always, we're fighting an uphill battle against the sort of complacency that would see the quality of our beloved sport eroded and eventually destroyed. The majority of the posters in this thread have asked that we bite our tongues and turn our cheeks from the face of the pay-driving onslaught but you and I both know that this is akin to supporting it! We must continue to fight the good fight, against all odds and opposition...

A return to mechanical grip would do it. The '08 rules mostly put us in the right direction...

They have Mike, certainly a step in the right direction but they don't go far enough in some areas and they go entirely the wrong direction in others.

[bajo39 0]

On one hand I can see what you mean about paid or sponsored drivers in F1 - I think we would all like to see drivers in F1 on merit, unless of course the driver that people want to kick out is the driver you support!

On the other hand, with regards to NK, I think $3m dollars (I think that's what you said) that he's bringing to the table could turn out to be not very viable economically, if he's not a very good driver - I don't know what price you would put on successful test drivers helping the team towards possibly a decent car, or vice versa. That and the fact that he's not an 'unknown quantity' would make me think that he must be ok as a test driver.

I think the Indian contingent would like the pay-drive/test system to continue in F1 because, as I said earlier, they seem to care not for the reputation of the sport but only for the participation of their countryman and on any terms I might add. Let's see if they say otherwise?

Now, as to your second paragraph - the sum to consider is not 3 million but perhaps 6 or 10 million because the qualified test drivers are actually paid quiet well for their work while Narain pays to do his. See, logic dictates that because the teams pay qualified testers, they have a positive value to the team which must be more than their salary, otherwise they wouldn't hire them. On the other hand, Narain had to pay for his position which means that he has a negative value. That negative value is the amount in dollar terms by which he falls short of being qualified for F1.

[Max Mosley 2]

On one hand I can see what you mean about paid or sponsored drivers in F1 - I think we would all like to see drivers in F1 on merit, unless of course the driver that people want to kick out is the driver you support!

Indeed. That should decide the issue for you!

On the other hand, with regards to NK, I think $3m dollars (I think that's what you said) that he's bringing to the table could turn out to be not very viable economically, if he's not a very good driver - I don't know what price you would put on successful test drivers helping the team towards possibly a decent car, or vice versa. That and the fact that he's not an 'unknown quantity' would make me think that he must be ok as a test driver.

No because they have Alex Wurz to develop the car, who's more than capable of doing it himself. How much testing do they let Karty actually do?

By the way, Bajo, I looked at the link to the video of arnoux/villeneuve in your sig for the 1st time today. That's the sort of racing I would like to see in F1 again. I really can't remember that last time that an overtaken driver has fought back & got back past, aside from in changeable weather conditions. As I say, it is the racing I would like to see again, but I don't hold out much hope.

Indeed. Its all gone downhill.

Indeed Murray. As always, we're fighting an uphill battle against the sort of complacency that would see the quality of our beloved sport eroded and eventually destroyed. The majority of the posters in this thread have asked that we bite our tongues and turn our cheeks from the face of the pay-driving onslaught but you and I both know that this is akin to supporting it! We must continue to fight the good fight, against all odds and opposition...

The odds are against us and the situation is grim though Dan.

[Autumnpuma 0]

They have Mike, certainly a step in the right direction but they don't go far enough in some areas and they go entirely the wrong direction in others.

Yup.

[stopkidding 0]

I think the Indian contingent would like the pay-drive/test system to continue in F1 because, as I said earlier, they seem to care not for the reputation of the sport but only for the participation of their countryman and on any terms I might add. Let's see if they say otherwise?

Now, as to your second paragraph - the sum to consider is not 3 million but perhaps 6 or 10 million because the qualified test drivers are actually paid quiet well for their work while Narain pays to do his. See, logic dictates that because the teams pay qualified testers, they have a positive value to the team which must be more than their salary, otherwise they wouldn't hire them. On the other hand, Narain had to pay for his position which means that he has a negative value. That negative value is the amount in dollar terms by which he falls short of being qualified for F1.

Well Garry Paffett is rumoured to become a pay driver for Spyker, with Mclaren and Mercedes bankrolling his drive. If that happens I would like to see a similar protest against Paffett from all you who claim to safeguard F1 from Pay-Drivers.