Kimi Or Fernando, Your Choice

[cavallino 2]

maybe fisi didn't block anyone, i actually don't care... but i wasn't happy to see he decided to crash on nick this year on italy not to catch fernando's car...

Wasn't Italy iirc, some other race, Italy was where Alonso messed up an overtaking maeouvre on Nick but didn't give the position back. I didn't like it though, as a Fisi fan the last two years have been rather disappointing, I hope '07 is better

[Shane2 0]

What do you mean?

Taking on a driver is one thing, taking them out the race quiet another. I think it is fair to say most teams would rather their drivers battled other teams than each other. Less chance for accidents.

Edit: Ah i remember what incident you are talking about now. If i remember correctly, Alonso was not penalised because he had one of his wheels still inside the confines of the track. Not an overly smart thing to do, i will admit but not illegal

[cavallino 2]

what? the team even said choosing on taking nick instead of fernando out was a 'sport team attitude'...

He didn't exactly choose Nick, he just spun, Nick was the victim.

[Kati 0]

both were on track, nick was 3rd and then fisichella had some problem and would crash fernando, but... not to catch him, he prefered crashing on poor nick, that had nothing to do with that... that's also not sportive...

i dont remember if it was italy... im almost sure nick was on press conference before, thats y i thought it was italy

nooo i missed up. nick was on press conference after 3rd on hungary... sorry... he wasn't third when fisichella crashed him (sorry for that) but i found the news about it :

Pat Symonds, from Renault, talked about the 'great attitude' of Fisichella, when he chose not hitting Alonso's car and hitting Nick's instead.

"We must not forget to congratulate Giancarlo today, who put in a fantastic drive," he said. "He put himself off at Turn 1 to ensure that he did not collide with Fernando, which was a very sporting move."

Source: Yahoo

[Shane2 0]

Find out what GP it was in for definate, and i will re-watch it this evening. It is a shame when any driver takes any driver out. Although i don't like the mentality of "i dont wanna take my teammate out so i will take someone else out instead" i can't really blame fisi for that one, as it does not go down well with team management. Ideally though Fisi wouldn't have made the mistake in the first place

Katy: can you link me to that, i would like to find out what race it was in, as i am pretty sure that Fisi finished in Italy

[Kati 0]

turkey

[Shane2 0]

Ok thanks

I have watched the start and here is what i saw:

Fisi came into the corner too hot, and was close to taking Alonso out. He hit the breaks hard to avoid alonso, and consequently span. The high camera angle is not brilliant, but it appears to me that he tagged Nick with the front end of his car as he was completing the spin.

A stupid mistake, i will grant you that, but i saw no evidence that he did it on purpose

[Kati 0]

I still hate him... lol

[Shane2 0]

Fair enough

[Quiet One 15]

Can you guys re type all the flaming again only abbreviated? It takes too long to read the thread!

Oh yes, one more thing: Dribbler, I don't agree with your views on Schumacher but darn you can surely sing!

[dribbler 6]

Yet it is completely unidiotic to say you want advertising boards to fall on Alonso? i see this as being a clear case of the pig calling the dog dirty. I am a fan of the sport, and i do not like him because he tried on numerous occasions to cheat. He was the most unsporting driver in the history of the sport and if you get an opinion poll, most people that are not in his fan group will admit that.

I hate unsporting behaviour, so i hate michael. I personally think that to be labelled an idiot because i dont like unsporting behaviour is pretty strong. F1 is a sport after all, and there where 21 other competitors.

I admit that Michael was not perfect in the truly sporting sense where all is fair and all rules are abided to. He pushed the boundaries of what was fair. He did this because he was absolutely dedicated to the cause of winning. Rules are a constraint to this cause, not an institution to be adored. If you really can't admire a human beings passion to be this focused, especially in a sport that you clearly, with me, love you must be a little dead inside.

I admire your valour. Being so disgusted by Michael's behaviour raises you above us dirty Schumacher fans who are clearly followers of all things unfair. I labelled you an idiot because you, like so many can never refer to the excellence of the man, only the times when he has made a mistake. Considering the duration of his career, proportionately these errors are insignificant. People like you have to make them significant because the sensationalism that surrounds them puts you on some sort of moral high ground.

You may hate what Michael stands for but i find it shallow bandwagoning to say that you hate 'him'. You do not know him.

I'll happily argue with you into the night but i think it might get boring. I know Michael wasn't perfect but i loved his ruthless imperfection. You may be hurt by a rule bender but i think it is the essence of what makes human nuances so exciting.

[Shane2 0]

Hmm that stinks or Wrongness, i do not have anything to do with taking the moral high ground, it really is quiet simple, i like F1 for the spectacle it presents. A driver deliberately breaking its rules, to impede and ruin the races of other participants is not Greatness, it is dirty. I admire focus and passion yes, but i do not consider Cheating anything to do with focus, it is dirty, and wrong and your attempts to justify it as part of a winning focus, are, frankly laughable.

If Michael was so talented, and so brilliant, why did he feel he needed to break the rules, and take part in some of the rediculous things he did. Surely if he was so good, he could have beat his competitors without cheating? right?

Cheating has historically been seen as, and remains the last hope of a desparate Loser.

Ok he won 90+ races good for him, he won 7 world titles, again good for him. Recognising someone's Achievements does not mean that you are not entitled to dislike them for the way they act in and around their profession.

Believe what you want, but i personally do not give a toss about myself being on any kind of moral high ground. I love racing, i love the thrill and spectacle, and i dont like it being ruined by arrogant, cheating drivers that think they are bigger than the sport, and have the right to cheat.

I will also re-iterate that my comments do not go against all Ferrari fans, there are a lot of normal ones, which i have no problem with. My irritation goes against the slanted ones, such as cavallino for example, that sit there slagging drivers like Alonso off for no other reason than the fact that he stole Michael's glory

[dribbler 6]

Hmm that stinks or Wrongness, i do not have anything to do with taking the moral high ground, it really is quiet simple, i like F1 for the spectacle it presents. A driver deliberately breaking its rules, to impede and ruin the races of other participants is not Greatness, it is dirty. I admire focus and passion yes, but i do not consider Cheating anything to do with focus, it is dirty, and wrong and your attempts to justify it as part of a winning focus, are, frankly laughable.

If Michael was so talented, and so brilliant, why did he feel he needed to break the rules, and take part in some of the rediculous things he did. Surely if he was so good, he could have beat his competitors without cheating? right?

Cheating has historically been seen as, and remains the last hope of a desparate Loser.

Ok he won 90+ races good for him, he won 7 world titles, again good for him. Recognising someone's Achievements does not mean that you are not entitled to dislike them for the way they act in and around their profession.

Believe what you want, but i personally do not give a toss about myself being on any kind of moral high ground. I love racing, i love the thrill and spectacle, and i dont like it being ruined by arrogant, cheating drivers that think they are bigger than the sport, and have the right to cheat.

I will also re-iterate that my comments do not go against all Ferrari fans, there are a lot of normal ones, which i have no problem with. My irritation goes against the slanted ones, such as cavallino for example, that sit there slagging drivers like Alonso off for no other reason than the fact that he stole Michael's glory

I agree with most of what you say. But like i say, Michael's achievements should far out weight the mistakes he has made. You must know people in your life who are fundamentally good people who have made mistakes. Do you judge their character on those mistakes or look athe the person as a whole? Equally, do you know anyone who is perfect? If you do, i bet they are boring.

[Player(1) 0]

Alonso asked the team to replace a perfectly good set of tyres - his mistake.

Open radio for Renault so it should be very easy for you to back up that you think he ordered Renault to change them.

Question:

The crucial call came at Fernando's first stop, when you decided to change both front tyres. How did you make that decision?

Pat Symonds:

As always with these things, it was a team decision. Fernando radioed in to say that the front left tyre was very badly worn. He makes good judgement calls, and we are very confident in the information he gives us . On the pit-wall, we knew that changing to new tyres would carry a performance penalty as he went through a phase of graining and the tyres scrubbed in, but we did not expect it to be anything like as bad as it proved. We simply got it wrong.

Hmmm according to Symonds anyway Alonso didnt ask to change the tyres, I see him giving input and the team backed up by telemetry making the decision.

[goferrarigo 0]

Open radio for Renault so it should be very easy for you to back up that you think he ordered Renault to change them.

Hmmm according to Symonds anyway Alonso didnt ask to change the tyres, I see him giving input and the team backed up by telemetry making the decision.

I don't think he odered them to be change but was under mutal aggreement to change them, i think he would had the last word in the discussion. He could/would not know how things would work out(which comes by experiecne, by making these sort of mistakes in the past to learn for the future) all he knew was that the tyres were quite grained and thus had to change them. (hate trying to defedn alonso)

[Shane2 0]

I agree with most of what you say. But like i say, Michael's achievements should far out weight the mistakes he has made. You must know people in your life who are fundamentally good people who have made mistakes. Do you judge their character on those mistakes or look athe the person as a whole? Equally, do you know anyone who is perfect? If you do, i bet they are boring.

I don't try and hide his achievements, they are phenomenal and i have never tried to argue otherwise, i guess i just personally don't like unsporting drivers. Yep you are right, they have all done it at some point i will not argue that one either, i just always felt it seemed to surround MS far too often. Whilst i admit i do like Alonso, i love watching F1 as a sport, and whatever sport it is in, i cannot stand unsporting play (which is why Christiano Ronaldo has also made it onto my enemies list).

I also feel that the level MS did some of his cheating was on was a bit severe. People can argue about this kind of thing till they go blue in the face, i guess its just me, and i honestly dont care what moral ground i am on, i just love to see close wheel to wheel racing, not cheating, and tainted driving (btw i am glad Alonso got ticked off in hungary too, because it taught him a bit of a lesson about impetuous behaviour)

[dribbler 6]

I don't try and hide his achievements, they are phenomenal and i have never tried to argue otherwise, i guess i just personally don't like unsporting drivers. Yep you are right, they have all done it at some point i will not argue that one either, i just always felt it seemed to surround MS far too often. Whilst i admit i do like Alonso, i love watching F1 as a sport, and whatever sport it is in, i cannot stand unsporting play (which is why Christiano Ronaldo has also made it onto my enemies list).

I also feel that the level MS did some of his cheating was on was a bit severe. People can argue about this kind of thing till they go blue in the face, i guess its just me, and i honestly dont care what moral ground i am on, i just love to see close wheel to wheel racing, not cheating, and tainted driving (btw i am glad Alonso got ticked off in hungary too, because it taught him a bit of a lesson about impetuous behaviour)

Once again, i agree with all of that. One thing to bear in mind i guess is that all of Michael's dubious activities have taken place at the sharp end where things are naturally scrutinized closer because the stakes are higher. There is plenty of foul play further down the field, it just isn't given as much publicity.

I too have a deep appreciation for Fernando. He is the only guy, in my opinion capable of emulating Michael's status as the complete all rounder. This year he made fewer mistakes than Michael and deserved the title.

[Player(1) 0]

Once again, i agree with all of that. One thing to bear in mind i guess is that all of Michael's dubious activities have taken place at the sharp end where things are naturally scrutinized closer because the stakes are higher. There is plenty of foul play further down the field, it just isn't given as much publicity

If theres one thing that really annoys me its double standards! the whole field needs to be treated the same...not that i can think of any such incidents in recent years.

[dribbler 6]

If theres one thing that really annoys me its double standards! the whole field needs to be treated the same...not that i can think of any such incidents in recent years.

I believe that they are all treated the same. My point is that because Michael is (or was ) so high profile, he is far more likely to be branded by a stereo type. Look how a minority of cretins have labelled Fernando as a whinger because his comment about 'feeling alone' was contextually inaccurate and blown annoyingly out of proportion and you'll see my point.

I remember Mark Webber viciously brake testing another driver in Bahrain a couple of years ago. Who still goes on about that?

[Quiet One 15]

You were talking about the tyre change and it made me recall Senna

[Shane2 0]

I believe that they are all treated the same. My point is that because Michael is (or was ) so high profile, he is far more likely to be branded by a stereo type. Look how a minority of cretins have labelled Fernando as a whinger because his comment about 'feeling alone' was contextually inaccurate and blown annoyingly out of proportion and you'll see my point.

I remember Mark Webber viciously brake testing another driver in Bahrain a couple of years ago. Who still goes on about that?

According to fernando, that was misquoted by the spanish media anyway

You were talking about the tyre change and it made me recall Senna

[monza gorilla 1]

Here's a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMuxA7dJjk

[Wez 0]

Open radio for Renault so it should be very easy for you to back up that you think he ordered Renault to change them.

Hmmm according to Symonds anyway Alonso didnt ask to change the tyres, I see him giving input and the team backed up by telemetry making the decision.

Yes, you right.... But you might as well be arguing with a stubborn 3 year old who knows very little about f1. The person is question hates Alonso and will speak any rubbish to try bring him down... Its quite funny really!

[Player(1) 0]

Yes, you right.... But you might as well be arguing with a stubborn 3 year old who knows very little about f1. The person is question hates Alonso and will speak any rubbish to try bring him down... Its quite funny really!

The first few hundred times yea

[Shane2 0]

Here's a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMuxA7dJjk

Great stuff thanks. Judging by the voice of the narrator i am guessing that came from the official 1993 review

Yes, you right.... But you might as well be arguing with a stubborn 3 year old who knows very little about f1. The person is question hates Alonso and will speak any rubbish to try bring him down... Its quite funny really!

Schumi's Fans are very much like the man himself. Detest anyone that offers any competition and beats him on the track

The first few hundred times yea

Yeah it does get boring. They should learn to accept defeat graciously like the other team's fans