Kimi Or Fernando, Your Choice

[raikkonen_dominates2 0]

Will it be mistakes or the car failing as usual?, no one knows, its all speculation.

As far the MP4-21 is concerened it was mostly handled by Peter Promodu and its wasnt anything spectacular, the age of the star designer is dead, Newey is great but his influence alone cant work wonders if it was that much the case, Newey's designs in 2001, 2002, 2004 have all miserably failed until it was nessecary for a B spec in most cases to patch things up, of course i can attribute it to Mclaren coming in the way of Adrian's style of working. But yet the wonder designer is no more, the age of the star designer is gone.

Tombazis had a great influence on the MP4-20 and thats why they excelled in 2005 and the development pace was also good enough but the engines were failing a lot not just becuase of the engines themselvs, but very bad cooling issues plus a tricky and failed drive shaft experiment (i know this as i have had the chance to get merc engineers talking, who were willing to share a few info) So both Mcalren and Mercedes failed here and there, they had a good aero design and they failed collectively.

Now Mike Coughlan is doing (almost done) the MP4-22 and he has been in mclaren's winning days right there with newey, he will do just fine, and mind you, it will be a good car for next year, its now down to mercedes for providing the goods.

And with the engine freeze in place, they have already got up their specs for the loss of 40BHP to the top teams and they should be able to forget the advantges others enjoy when the rpm is tuned down to 19,000RPM

Mercedes have to concentrate on getting the reliabilty up, as the final round of the extended homologation rules applies, the last day of the off-season before the firday of the first GP of 2007.

I find it amusing that how many claim mclaren will be in trouble because some few "names" left them. they should check on whats in the team, and i can tell you that Mclaren just didnt bother with the 2006 development anymore when they KNEW they were loosing both drivers and they were getting in Alonso, thats why the pace of the Mclaren's declined when its should have improved.

There was a lot of talk about mclaren ending up with a winless year in a decade, frankly they dont give a dime about that press spin, they have to concentrate on the new car and start off with a slate wiped clean.

It's easier to drive, when the car is in perfect balance. But if Mclaren fails with aerodynamics, we certainly will see more faults from Alonso. And when it comes to aerodynamics, I guess Newey and Tombaszis would have had some kind of influence to the result...

[StarBlazer 0]

It's easier to drive, when the car is in perfect balance. But if Mclaren fails with aerodynamics, we certainly will see more faults from Alonso. And when it comes to aerodynamics, I guess Newey and Tombaszis would have had some kind of influence to the result...

There "maybe faults" is an assumption you are making without prior knowledge of anything about the future, might i add its what you "want" or wish to see happen, and has nothing to do with alonso making mistakes. You are a fan of kimi i take it?, so i can see where you are coming from.

And may I point out a fast car is usually hard to drive, DC, Mika, Alonso, Kimi, Schumacher who have all had chances to drives fast cars to name a few, will re-iterate this fact.

So balance doesn't mean "easy to drive", it just ensures the car is working at its peak. And its upto the driver to get that peak out of the car, and its usually not "easy" on a fast car.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, A fast car always has its short comings.

[alonsenna 0]

Well, Webber can't vote on this poll, but from his words I can guess who would be his choice.

@BradSpeedMan, maybe this also confirms your suspicion that he is also another regular Alonso fan...

>>Webber looked ahead of next season saying: "If Alonso can get a good car from McLaren I don't think anyone will touch him again - he's the class in the field at the moment, there's no-one who can compete with him consistently."

>>"He's double world champion when Michael was still around which is a great feather in his cap and something which I know he's particularly rapt about. I think he will give them that lift actually. McLaren have been looking for a bit of direction for a while now and I think Fernando can give it to them."

>>But if Raikkonen can also start racing for the championship again has yet to be seen according to Webber. "Kimi is phenomenally quick, we know that. Whether he can take it to Fernando during the course of the season, it's going to be a good fight between those two," he said. "Renault will be strong, Kovalainen will be one of the finds of the season I think and Fisi could come out of his shell because he hasn't got Fernando there."

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=134603

[raikkonen_dominates2 0]

And may I point out a fast car is usually hard to drive, DC, Mika, Alonso, Kimi, Schumacher who have all had chances to drives fast cars to name a few, will re-iterate this fact.

Well, not with Alonso, or don't you remember how he struggled last season, when there were grip problems with Renault?

[StarBlazer 0]

Well, not with Alonso, or don't you remember how he struggled last season, when there were grip problems with Renault?

Point being?, may i ask you "dont you remember how Kimi and pedro struggled this season with grip levels?" and they both didn't make mistakes due to the car being low on grips because you can only get slower because of that. Not "mistakes" as you would like to put it.

And to seal the nail on your question, alonso had to deal with much more grip level problems in 2004 and how did it turn out? Pretty normal, no issues just slow on the whole package, unlike making "mistakes" because of that.

And it would be absurd to call a slow pace because of low grip levels a "mistake". You are straying away from the main point here, come back to the subject at hand pal.

You were arguing that we will see more mistakes in the future based on an assumption you came up with, and i pointed out to you, that makes hardly any sense as i too can make up many assumptions, or anyone for that matter.

What you claim is what you "wish to see" rather than anything based on substance.

[dribbler 6]

Well, Webber can't vote on this poll, but from his words I can guess who would be his choice.

@BradSpeedMan, maybe this also confirms your suspicion that he is also another regular Alonso fan...

>>Webber looked ahead of next season saying: "If Alonso can get a good car from McLaren I don't think anyone will touch him again - he's the class in the field at the moment, there's no-one who can compete with him consistently."

>>"He's double world champion when Michael was still around which is a great feather in his cap and something which I know he's particularly rapt about. I think he will give them that lift actually. McLaren have been looking for a bit of direction for a while now and I think Fernando can give it to them."

>>But if Raikkonen can also start racing for the championship again has yet to be seen according to Webber. "Kimi is phenomenally quick, we know that. Whether he can take it to Fernando during the course of the season, it's going to be a good fight between those two," he said. "Renault will be strong, Kovalainen will be one of the finds of the season I think and Fisi could come out of his shell because he hasn't got Fernando there."

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=134603

I find it strange when a driver is so open about his admiration for another. Mark is being honest but it sits uncomfortably with me because in my opinion he should have the mind set that he is the best. If he doesn't believe that, who else is going to? His remarks about being under pressure also feel like someone who is trying to soften the blow of an average performance. Maybe i'm being too harsh, he is after all being honest and should be commended for that.

[Taku 0]

i'd choose kimi cos he's blindingly quick and never openly crticises his team for not supporting him the way alonso does. he just gets on with it.

[Player(1) 0]

I find it strange when a driver is so open about his admiration for another. Mark is being honest but it sits uncomfortably with me because in my opinion he should have the mind set that he is the best. If he doesn't believe that, who else is going to? His remarks about being under pressure also feel like someone who is trying to soften the blow of an average performance. Maybe i'm being too harsh, he is after all being honest and should be commended for that.

Maybe it's like how Alonso says he always wanted to beat Schumacher while he's still racing, it wopuld feel better to beat someone you appreciate the skill of and by publicly annoucning it you are giving yourself a challenge/goal.

i'd choose kimi cos he's blindingly quick and never openly crticises his team for not supporting him the way alonso does. he just gets on with it.

Don't worry the Italian gossip media will be in full force to twist anything that can be remotely linked to a moan next year for Kimi then you'll be trying to defend a made-up comment. Ofcourse you won't admit this year's dodgy "media websites" where off, instead just stick your foot in your mouth saying its Kimi finally showing some character or something.

[dark rider 13 0]

mark webber shud stop talkin and start racing he statin 2 belive his own hype just like massa wen was the last time he even scored points??

[cavallino 2]

I agree with both of you on that fighting for the WDC every error is significant. Who wouldnt't? But my point is that there are bigger (and more significant) and smaller mistakes. And that FA's ones, who obviuosly has made some over the year, have been clearly less than his competitors, very few and not very big. I'll try to explain myself:

Fernando never in a single race had a car as bad to drive as the Ferrari at Australia, Hungary or Malaysia, as such he should be making less mistakes, he still managed to make a fair few.

[Quiet One 15]

Fernando never in a single race had a car as bad to drive as the Ferrari at Australia, Hungary or Malaysia, as such he should be making less mistakes, he still managed to make a fair few.

Well, he did not drove a Ferrari neither at Australia, Hungary or Malaysia. There you have 3 mistakes MS did that Alonso did not

[Player(1) 0]

Fernando never in a single race had a car as bad to drive as the Ferrari at Australia, Hungary or Malaysia, as such he should be making less mistakes, he still managed to make a fair few.

[sarcasm/Titfosi bias mode]Yea the banning of the mass damper's did nothing to effect the balance of the car even though they had to rebalance it during the 3 week break before Turkey(?), would have made it easier to drive or something surely anyway....Michelin's tyre blistering at the same time didnt add further to the problems and didnt effect grip or anything ofcourse and their usual tire wear issue's especially at monaco wasent any trouble...[/sarcasm/Titfosi bias mode]

May not have suffered the same troubles Ferrari did but they did suffer as bad if not worse (well USGP for Alonso was the same problem as Australian GP for MS only Alonso didnt make mistakes and stuff it in a wall ). Oh and in Hungary they didnt have some mystical extra grip, Fifi stuffing it into the wall proves that and the fact is Alonso adapting his driving style to keep the car on the track and more competative.

[Shane2 0]

Fernando never in a single race had a car as bad to drive as the Ferrari at Australia, Hungary or Malaysia, as such he should be making less mistakes, he still managed to make a fair few.

Why is it you seem to bash Fernando at every opportunity. He actually made very few mistakes all season. In terms of on-track stuff he actually made very little, most of his problems where team errors. and in Malaysia, and Australia the ferrari was handling fine it was just terminally slow, so i don't know where you plucked that one from, the error was in Michael going wide and sticking it in the wall. Show me 1 incident during the season where alonso made a racing mistake like that. No offence mate, but you seem to have a very warped view of F1

Anyway my vote is for Fernando. Reilable, Dependant, Handles pressure very well, is a proven schumacher beater, and can consistantly bang in competitive lap times

[goferrarigo 0]

Oh and in Hungary they didnt have some mystical extra grip, Fifi stuffing it into the wall proves that and the fact is Alonso adapting his driving style to keep the car on the track and more competative.

Or it could be interpretted that fisi is a crap driver. depends on how you look at it.

[Shane2 0]

Fisi lost control of the car, he didnt just stuff it into the wall. A lot of drivers had a lot of spins that day, he was just unlucky enough to hit the wall and lose his rear wing to the wall. Inconsistent? Yes... A crap driver... No

[alonsenna 0]

Fernando never in a single race had a car as bad to drive as the Ferrari at Australia, Hungary or Malaysia, as such he should be making less mistakes, he still managed to make a fair few.

Don't forget Turkey!!! MS made an error in the qually, and then again on the race when he was chasing FA he lost it in turn 8. I'm sure the Ferrari was a very difficult car to drive there too...

[Shane2 0]

Nope, schumi just had a bad day in Turkey. The car was the fastest car all weekend. The only reason Alonso kept him behind was for so long, was that his tires started to go off towards the end, and he was having to downshift in the middle of Turn 8 to stop himself going off. Massa won the race in the car so it cant have been that bad

[Player(1) 0]

Nope, schumi just had a bad day in Turkey. The car was the fastest car all weekend. The only reason Alonso kept him behind was for so long, was that his tires started to go off towards the end, and he was having to downshift in the middle of Turn 8 to stop himself going off. Massa won the race in the car so it cant have been that bad

Alonso was suffering from his rear's going off aswell. Alonso admitted that himself and if you watch when telemetry is up he his applying the accelerator out of corner's slowely instead of just standing on it like usual if everything's ok.

[alonsenna 0]

Nope, schumi just had a bad day in Turkey. The car was the fastest car all weekend. The only reason Alonso kept him behind was for so long, was that his tires started to go off towards the end, and he was having to downshift in the middle of Turn 8 to stop himself going off. Massa won the race in the car so it cant have been that bad

Sorry Shane2, I was just being ironic (very badly I should've used a smilie) with cavallino...

For many Ferrari fans, it seems MS never makes mistakes, and when these happen, its just because of the car was very difficult to drive or something else. On the other hand FA is just a very very lucky pilot and has an incredible car with superpowers that offset any mistake he makes because, you know, he is just not that good...

[Shane2 0]

Alonso was suffering from his rear's going off aswell. Alonso admitted that himself and if you watch when telemetry is up he his applying the accelerator out of corner's slowely instead of just standing on it like usual if everything's ok.

Yeah i know, thats why he was so bad in the slow corners. I think the heat really punished the Michelin cars. I was just pointing out that the car he was in was fundamentally still a good car

Sorry Shane2, I was just being ironic (very badly I should've used a smilie) with cavallino...

For many Ferrari fans, it seems MS never makes mistakes, and when these happen, its just because of the car was very difficult to drive or something else. On the other hand FA is just a very very lucky pilot and has an incredible car with superpowers that offset any mistake he makes because, you know, he is just not that good...

Ah i see, sorry for the misunderstanding the whole weekend in my view was compromised by Schumacher's mistake in Quali. The simple fact is the Ferrari fans don't like to see anyone that is a threat to their man. If anyone doubts Alonso's credentials, then watch a re-run of the 2006 Spanish GP and watch the outstanding times that Fernando was banging in.

I can assure anyone that doubts Alonso's ability that winning back to back championships was no Fluke, i am sure many Schumi fans point that out when people say stuff against him.

[Wez 0]

Why is it you seem to bash Fernando at every opportunity. He actually made very few mistakes all season. In terms of on-track stuff he actually made very little, most of his problems where team errors. and in Malaysia, and Australia the ferrari was handling fine it was just terminally slow, so i don't know where you plucked that one from, the error was in Michael going wide and sticking it in the wall. Show me 1 incident during the season where alonso made a racing mistake like that. No offence mate, but you seem to have a very warped view of F1

Anyway my vote is for Fernando. Reilable, Dependant, Handles pressure very well, is a proven schumacher beater, and can consistantly bang in competitive lap times

You see, it goes like this.... Schumacher fans are upset that the apparent greatest driver of all time ect ect ect was sent packing with his tail between his legs by a youngster who plain and simply was the better drive this year!

[pabloh20 1]

You see, it goes like this.... Schumacher fans are upset that the apparent greatest driver of all time ect ect ect was sent packing with his tail between his legs by a youngster who plain and simply was the better drive this year!

How come your Dad is mates with Alistair Gibson and yet none of his knowledge has rubbed off on you?? Just kidding!! Can you do me a favour ? Ask Alistair Gibson who he rates as the best driver he's seen while he's been in F1 and let us know - well that's if you can be trusted to give us the truthful response if it doesn't agree with your opinion!!

In my opinion, Alonso & Kimi are 2 obviously good racing drivers, but I still have to reserve judgement on them.

My main problem with Alonso is that for whatever reason he hasn't won a race in the wet. My main problem with Kimi is that again for whatever reason, he still seems to make a few too many driving mistakes. There may be perfectly good reasons for both of these things, but in my mind sometime in the future both have got to rectify them.

[Wez 0]

How come your Dad is mates with Alistair Gibson and yet none of his knowledge has rubbed off on you?? Just kidding!! Can you do me a favour ? Ask Alistair Gibson who he rates as the best driver he's seen while he's been in F1 and let us know - well that's if you can be trusted to give us the truthful response if it doesn't agree with your opinion!!

In my opinion, Alonso & Kimi are 2 obviously good racing drivers, but I still have to reserve judgement on them.

My main problem with Alonso is that for whatever reason he hasn't won a race in the wet. My main problem with Kimi is that again for whatever reason, he still seems to make a few too many driving mistakes. There may be perfectly good reasons for both of these things, but in my mind sometime in the future both have got to rectify them.

I will do, He's back in the UK now, but next time he's in South Africa (apparently after the Aussie GP) I'll def do so.

Obviously been biased as a Honda employee, he rates Button highly and says if TC is banned Button will benefit more than any driver. Also while I was digging for the lowdown on Alonso he only had good things to say about him!.

I'll ask for his views on all of them in March though

[pabloh20 1]

I will do, He's back in the UK now, but next time he's in South Africa (apparently after the Aussie GP) I'll def do so.

Obviously been biased as a Honda employee, he rates Button highly and says if TC is banned Button will benefit more than any driver. Also while I was digging for the lowdown on Alonso he only had good things to say about him!.

I'll ask for his views on all of them in March though

Yeah, that's fair enough, he's allowed to be biased seems he's part of the team!!

Cheers for that and I look forward to the revelations, whenever they may be!!

[Shane2 0]

You see, it goes like this.... Schumacher fans are upset that the apparent greatest driver of all time ect ect ect was sent packing with his tail between his legs by a youngster who plain and simply was the better drive this year!

Fair point

How come your Dad is mates with Alistair Gibson and yet none of his knowledge has rubbed off on you?? Just kidding!! Can you do me a favour ? Ask Alistair Gibson who he rates as the best driver he's seen while he's been in F1 and let us know - well that's if you can be trusted to give us the truthful response if it doesn't agree with your opinion!!

In my opinion, Alonso & Kimi are 2 obviously good racing drivers, but I still have to reserve judgement on them.

My main problem with Alonso is that for whatever reason he hasn't won a race in the wet. My main problem with Kimi is that again for whatever reason, he still seems to make a few too many driving mistakes. There may be perfectly good reasons for both of these things, but in my mind sometime in the future both have got to rectify them.

I can give you the reasons why Alonso has never won a race in the wet:

Belgium 2004: Mechanical Failure (team error)

Belgium 2005: McLaren had the car advantage and everybody knows it

Hungary 2006: Wheel nut fell off when he had a comfortable lead, and would have won easily (team error)

China 2006: Was on the wrong tires, again team error.

I think he has proven twice this year that he would easily have had the speed and skill to win in the wet. And lets not kid ourselves, Michael was not exactly mistake free, now was he:

Britain 94: Passed hill on the formation lap, and refused to come in when he was shown the black flag

Adeliade 94: went off and stuffed it into the barrier (making amends by deliberately taking hill out)

Monaco 97: went straight on at sandevot and was lucky enough to continue without losing his lead

Hungary 98: Went off at the last corner and was again lucky not to stuff it in the barrier and lose his lead

Belgium 98: Rammed coulthard when attempting to lap him

Indie 2002: Gave the race win to barrichello attempting to stage a formation finish

China 2005: Span out from behind the safety car

Australia 2006: Went wide at turn 9 and pitched himself into the wall

Hungary 2006: Broke his suspension attempting to defend too hard to heidfeld

The only difference between Kimi and Michael was that Michael often had the luck of getting away with his mistakes