Ode To The Humble Lewis Hamilton

[Jean Todt 4]

MODS!! MODS!!! BAN THIS MAN!!! I SEE NIPPLES IN THAT PICTURE!!! PORNNN!!! BAN HIM!!!

[Rainmaster 7]

I am so sorry to have ofended you. If you are so keen on having my answers to the above, here you go:

Your answers mean the world to me! I wasn't offended, just don't like being on people's bad side.

1. F1 is about so much more than just driving skill and engineering innovation. Most of is probably about money and commercial interest.

Yup, sad but true.

2. So we agree that Alonso and Pedro contributed more to the testing and developement of the 2007 Mclaren than Hamilton. THat is good.

That appears like the most likely scenario, given their experience and knowledge. Although by 'contributed more' - I would say that is the quality of feedback, not about effort or workrate (number of laps put in).

3. Does that mean Alonso should automatically get no.1 status or deserve the title more? We also agree that it doesn't. But we also propably agree that Alonso does not diserve no.2 status, which I am starting to be convinced it is what he has received.

If Alonso is now getting No.2 status (I don't believe he is) then that might be due to the fact he is looking to switch teams, thats if you believe all the rumours. I don't think there is any argument where you could say he got No.2 status from the beginning, as I said before, it seems like they are still getting equal treatment.

Alonso believes Mclaren will give equal treatment

4. Nobody thought Hamilton would do this much on the track? We agree on this too.

It seems we agree on quite a bit!

5. Hamilton caused the Monaco investigation with the press statements. Amazing but we agree again. Perhaps we can forgive him as he is a rookie (not used to dealing with press, at that time)? No ****ing excuse; he knew perfectly what he was doing. We can't forgive him since he was beating Alonso? He was not beating Alonso since Alonso won that race. But he did get closer to Alonso becouse Alonso had the rev limiter on while Hamilton didn't

Well whether we forgive him or not, I don't believe he intended to trigger an investigation, perhaps it was an attempt to manipulate the British press more in his favour and aginst Alonso - but now I feel I am giving him too much credit (and perhaps doing your work for you). I think the problem at Monaco was that Senna is Hamilton's idol, so Lewis wanted more than anything to do well around there like Senna, maybe he expected to beat a two time champ around a track he'd (Alonso) had already won at - ambitious to say the least. Hamilton should of obeyed team orders (standard practice) and put the rev limiter on, he looked erratic.

6. In Hungary Hamilton broke a team rule. Can you believe we agree agin? Do you think what Alonso did in response was just as bad if not worse? So you think retaliation is worse than initiating a fight? Sorry, I have never been a good chistian and do not belive in turning the other chick. In any event, if you think Alonso was going to sit around calmly giving away an advantage that, by braking a team order, would have given him a critical advantage in the champioship, than you dont know what race drivers are made of. Did Hamilton say those things? -speculation, denied by Mclaren - but then again it would be (your word, not mine).

The response was just as bad in my opinion, everyone at Mclaren would of respected Alonso more if he'd handled it within the team, instead of bringing the spotlight on Mclaren yet again. However, amazingly, we are in a way agreeing again, all racing drivers are competitive animals, so his response was somewhat justified - and in some ways, respectable.

Just because Mclaren denied Hamilton said those things isn't proof that he did, just because we would expect Mclaren to do that anyway - perhaps he just didn't say them! Although it's a moot point really as it can't be proven either way, as there is no solid evidence.

7. At least Lewis talks to Dennis, unlike Alonso. So what does that have to do with anything. What it silly by Alonso to challenge RD? We agree agian.

It has to do with creating a better atmosphere in the team, even if Alonso doesn't like Dennis he should pretend to, Ron has less to lose considering he has another world class driver in Hamilton.

8. And finally, has Lewis Hamilton outperformed Fernando Alonso this year? We were not really discussing that, it was a disucussion about character, which is important to me but may not be important to anybody else. But since you bring it up, I disagree with you. I have said this before and I will say it again. Hamilton has out qualified Alonso more often that not. He has made fewer mistakes. But not once this year, in equal recing conditions, i.e one car following the other, has Hamilton been faster than Alonso. The closest he got to was Japan, and yet, he only open a brief three second gap that was probably granted by Alonso to gain some visibility in the rain.

Character is important when making a judgement on them as people, driving skill is important when rating them as professional racing drivers. As an example, I like David Coulthard's personality and approach, but I never rated him as highly as some other drivers (although he is obviously better than a lot). I don't like Alonso's personality this year (last year he was quite fun), but I respect him greatly as a driver (although I am convinced he drives better with a lesser team-mate, like Fisi).

Making less mistakes is part of outperforming someone, it is unfair on Hamilton to devalue his wins - just because he made less mistakes than Alonso, like Canada for example. He has outperformed him in equal conditions, as has Alonso to Hamilton.

Actually, the best posting of the day.

Cheers!

[zdzisio 0]

F1 is about so much more than just driving skill and engineering innovation. Most of is probably about money and commercial interest.

Just the same as the most of the modern professional sports.

[ipaneda 0]

To Rainmaster: I liked your response above. It was fair and balanced. Although we disagree on a few things, obvious since we support different drivers, we did manage o agree on a lot. And again, as with Murray, it was good fun arguing with you.

There are some things though that are worth further discussion and that I would like to hear your views on:

1. I believe Alonso has been de facto n.2 driver in the team since Hungary

2. I think RD is causing damage to McLaren, who would have the title in the bag if it wasn't for his mismanagement

3. In the Alonso / RD relationship issues, RD is the one with the management job and who needs to know how to get along with his driver, not the other way around. Alonso's job to drive fast.

4. I am still very surprised about the 7/10ths difference in qualifying between Hamilton and Alonso yesterday

5. I do not think Alonso can in any way trust his team to put him in a position to win in Brazil. And this may be the reason why Ferrari still has a big chance...

Food for thought.

[Max Mosley 2]

OK. So we have established that Alonso cheats like everybody else. I that sense, I will grant you he is a cheater, but no more and no less than the rest of F1. Therefore, labeling him a cheater seems harsh since it implies, to me at least, that he cheats more than the rest.

But, he is not an hypocrite...

Yes, I'm not saying he's necessarily any more a cheater than the others. I've always said cheating is something that happens throughout F1. Needless to say, I do think he is a hypocrite though too, but again no more than the others. He objected repeatedly and vociferously to MS's record of cheating, but now we find he was happy to win races in an illegal car. Also I find it odd that you have no problem with cheating, ie breaking the rules, but you "hate" hypocrisy. Personally I think it makes more sense to admire their racecraft and dedication, rather than how nice people they all are.

On your other points, I disagree strangely enough. I actually think Ron has tried quite hard to give each driver an equal chance to win. I'm much more impressed with McLaren and Ron after this year than before. I strongly disagree with point 3 because the driver has to be an integral part of the team, not just someone who can drive fast. Fernando might have reasonably felt like an outsider given Lewis's longer relationship with the team and the nationality/language barriers, but I feel he has probably contributed to his own problems too. Even Renault say that he finds it hard to deal with team mates who push him, and I think that has shown up more and more.

And I enjoyed debating with you too Ipaneda. I'm probably one of the biggest non-Spanish fans of Alonso's driving.

PS I actually agree that Alonso's position in the team has become very difficult after Hungary, but I think you make your own luck in the long run.

[Quiet One 15]

I'm probably one of the biggest non-Spanish fans of Alonso's driving.

What am I? Chopped liver?

[Max Mosley 2]

Ooooops! I kind of think of you as practically Spanish tbh, what with the language and Alonso worship. And OK I defer to your greater fandom, but I do like his talent.

[Piotr 0]

Just the same as the most of the modern professional sports.

Except synchronized swimming...

[Eric 0]

Except synchronized swimming...

WOMEN'S LOG ROLLING!

Wait, what?

Once that was on ESPN2 in 2000.

[Piotr 0]

WOMEN'S LOG ROLLING!

Wait, what?

Once that was on ESPN2 in 2000.

Well, they had it in the Olympics that year, but I think they dropped it since. The best I could think of...

[Rainmaster 7]

To Rainmaster: I liked your response above. It was fair and balanced. Although we disagree on a few things, obvious since we support different drivers, we did manage o agree on a lot. And again, as with Murray, it was good fun arguing with you.

There are some things though that are worth further discussion and that I would like to hear your views on:

1. I believe Alonso has been de facto n.2 driver in the team since Hungary

2. I think RD is causing damage to McLaren, who would have the title in the bag if it wasn't for his mismanagement

3. In the Alonso / RD relationship issues, RD is the one with the management job and who needs to know how to get along with his driver, not the other way around. Alonso's job to drive fast.

4. I am still very surprised about the 7/10ths difference in qualifying between Hamilton and Alonso yesterday

5. I do not think Alonso can in any way trust his team to put him in a position to win in Brazil. And this may be the reason why Ferrari still has a big chance...

Food for thought.

I always aim to please ipaneda! Let me state for the record that I don't particularly like either of them, I am merely putting forward my opinions/arguments for each, playing devil's advocate so to speak. I prefer Kimi, Kova, Sutil, Kubica, Vettel or Rosberg to either of them, in terms of personality that is. I am also a big fan of Alonso's driving, like Murray, and the bald bloke.

1.Possibly, although if this is the case I find it difficult to explain Alonso's Monza victory (it seemed to me as though Hamilton lacked a tenth) and also the fact that Alonso beat Hamilton three times consecutively. I believe that for a long while now (perhaps from the season's beginning) Mclaren have preferred Lewis to win, but preferring to win and sabotaging are quite different. I still think it's the case that they get equal treatment. (4.) This ties in with number four so here goes: the difference was surprisingly big, did Alonso make a mistake? Did he have traffic? Or did he just have a bit of a poor lap? I'm not sure, although I do remember the (British) commentators mentioning that Hamilton had warmed his tyres up very well and not had any traffic on his warm-up lap - either way I think it was an exceptional lap from the rookie. To put it this way, if Mclaren are sabotaging Alonso - they are not doing a very good job.

2.Firstly let me say that I'm not entirely sure what you mean by mismanagement, do you mean in regards to the spying scandal or driver management or both. I'll assume both.

I don't want to be drawn into a debate about the spying scandal, my thoughts are basically as follows: the actions of two rogue employees contributed more than anything, RD has to take a portion of the blame for this as they work for his company - but his responsibility isn't great. Alonso attempted to gain from illegal information (essentially this is cheating) as would any competitive driver. Hamilton it seems was not privy to this data, Pedro and Alonso (both spanish & speak the same language) most likely didn't tell Lewis; remember Pedro lost his seat to Hamilton as well. This doesn't make Hamilton *innocent*, as I believe he would of tried to do exactly the same.

3. Driver mismanagement/LH - RD relationship. Of course both Dennis & Alonso have to take responsibility for their relationship, my point is that Alonso has more to lose than Ron (who always has Hamilton). Alonso, I can't help but feel, was the main reason for the void at Mclaren and with Dennis - he should of tried much harder, acted the nice guy, this would at least lessen Mclaren's liking of Hamilton over himself. As Murray said, the driver's job is much much more than just driving fast, especially these days.

5.Alonso thinks different, equality expected. (it's the same link as before)

Also, I hope Kimi wins it.

[ipaneda 0]

1.Possibly, although if this is the case I find it difficult to explain Alonso's Monza victory (it seemed to me as though Hamilton lacked a tenth) and also the fact that Alonso beat Hamilton three times consecutively. I believe that for a long while now (perhaps from the season's beginning) Mclaren have preferred Lewis to win, but preferring to win and sabotaging are quite different. I still think it's the case that they get equal treatment. (4.) This ties in with number four so here goes: the difference was surprisingly big, did Alonso make a mistake? Did he have traffic? Or did he just have a bit of a poor lap? I'm not sure, although I do remember the (British) commentators mentioning that Hamilton had warmed his tyres up very well and not had any traffic on his warm-up lap - either way I think it was an exceptional lap from the rookie. To put it this way, if Mclaren are sabotaging Alonso - they are not doing a very good job.

Let me comment on this one quickly. Alonso was interviewed immediately after Q3 on Spanish TV. He said his two fast laps in Q3 were perfect and that he was surprised about the gap in the second of the two (If I recall correctly, he was faster than LW in the first one).

It later transpired that Alonso was so furious with the time in fact that he went back to the McLaren home and kicked-in a door. After that, the press reports today (El Mundo), he went to check the tire pressure on the last set of tires only to find it to be way above the optimal point....

[Rainmaster 7]

Let me comment on this one quickly. Alonso was interviewed immediately after Q3 on Spanish TV. He said his two fast laps in Q3 were perfect and that he was surprised about the gap in the second of the two (If I recall correctly, he was faster than LW in the first one).

It later transpired that Alonso was so furious with the time in fact that he went back to the McLaren home and kicked-in a door. After that, the press reports today (El Mundo), he went to check the tire pressure on the last set of tires only to find it to be way above the optimal point....

If true then I can't argue with that. We will know better after Brazil, with regards to equality/sabotage, still though there is that article.

[cavallino 2]

He said his two fast laps in Q3 were perfect and that he was surprised about the gap in the second of the two

I am surprised he is still surprised, to be beaten by Him is no shame.

Alonso fans have a talent in twisting ever situation to look like Alonso fighting against a thousand demons trying to hunt him down, so that every time he actually wins, they think it is him vanquishing his foes, not their pathetic overblown conspiracy theories collapsing in a burst of hot, smelly air.

[Jez 0]

I am surprised he is still surprised, to be beaten by Him is no shame.

Alonso fans have a talent in twisting ever situation to look like Alonso fighting against a thousand demons trying to hunt him down, so that every time he actually wins, they think it is him vanquishing his foes, not their pathetic overblown conspiracy theories collapsing in a burst of hot, smelly air.

You crack me up! Thats was gold.

[ipaneda 0]

It is the Him part I loved the most. So accurate and reflective of what is going on... But, leave conspiracy theories aside, Hamilton vs. Alonso, same conditions, same car, no strategies; I think Alonso would take his chances any time... Lets just hope that holds true for Brazil...