218 replies to this topic

[Massa]

Something for the off-weekends...I sympathize with the teams not wanting the calendar to go past 20, but if you scheduled 52 races, I really wouldn't mind.

We've had some exciting racing this year and a lot of drivers moving around the points standings and results week-to-week...so will anyone big be moving around in the drivers' market?  In order by current WCC standings, with all possibilities being purely speculative, and with all things confirmed being purely on paper:

Red Bull
Confirmed: Sebastian Vettel
Not Confirmed: Mark Webber
Possibilities: Re-sign Webber...some guy who is leading the WDC (Hamilton)...a promotion from the juniors (Ricciardo, Vergne)...a steady number two (Kovalainen)...a prospect steal from their rivals (Pérez or Hülkenberg)...a surprise contract buyout (Räikkönen)...

McLaren
Confirmed: Jenson Button
Not Confirmed: Lewis Hamilton
Possibilities: Re-sign Hamilton...go for the obvious and take on the absolute archetype of today's McLaren driver personality-wise (di Resta)...

Lotus
Confirmed: Kimi Räikkönen
Not Confirmed: Romain Grosjean
Possibilities: Re-sign Grosjean...take on a young driver with potential (Grosjean)...go for someone with a few podium finishes on his résumé (Grosjean)...

Ferrari
Confirmed: Fernando Alonso
Not Confirmed: Felipe Massa
Possibilities: Re-sign Massa (to be a Ferrari road car development tester and Le Mans GTE driver)...promote some kid who most certainly isn't ready for the F1 podium (Pérez)...get a pair of steady hands (Webber)...do some crazy, elaborate deal where Pérez spends one more year at Sauber while another driver spends one more year in F1 before while being groomed for a mangerial role within the team (Schumacher)...

Mercedes
Confirmed: Nico Rosberg
Not Confirmed: Michael Schumacher
Possibilities: Re-sign Schumacher...promote the guy they've invested six years in (di Resta)...promote the guy next to him (Hülkenberg)...go after the guy they apparently have no interest in (Hamilton)...

Sauber
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Kamui Kobayashi and Sergio Pérez
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...reluctantly take orders from Ferrari (Massa)...gladly take other orders from Ferrari (keep Pérez for another year)...

Williams
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Pastor Maldonado and Bruno Senna
Possibilities: Wait for money (Maldonado, Senna, Bottas who looks pretty good out there on Fridays)...

Force India
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Nico Hülkenberg and Paul di Resta
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...follow the line of succession (Bianchi)...let Mercedes call the shots (Bird...who apparently has signed a 2013 deal with the team, but it may be as third driver)...something crazy (Wickens hasn't done well in DTM, but allegedly chose DTM over GP2 because of implications for 2013)

Toro Rosso
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Éric Vergne
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...let one go to the big club and wait for orders (Red Bull don't have anyone I'm aware of who is in a series close enough to F1)...go to the third driver (Buemi)...grow distant from Red Bull (anyone floating around)

Caterham
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Heikki Kovalainen and Vitaly Petrov
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers (Kovalainen deal is close)...please the American sponsors with their third (Rossi)...take the money from their other third (van der Garde)...

Marussia
Confirmed: Timo Glock
Not Confirmed: Charles Pic
Possibilities: Best offer

HRT
Confirmed: Pedro de la Rosa
Not Confirmed: Narain Karthikeyan
Possibilities: Zsolt Baumgartner

[HandyNZL]

Massa, on 17 June 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Something for the off-weekends...I sympathize with the teams not wanting the calendar to go past 20, but if you scheduled 52 races, I really wouldn't mind.

We've had some exciting racing this year and a lot of drivers moving around the points standings and results week-to-week...so will anyone big be moving around in the drivers' market?  In order by current WCC standings, with all possibilities being purely speculative, and with all things confirmed being purely on paper:

Red Bull
Confirmed: Sebastian Vettel
Not Confirmed: Mark Webber
Possibilities: Re-sign Webber...some guy who is leading the WDC (Hamilton)...a promotion from the juniors (Ricciardo, Vergne)...a steady number two (Kovalainen)...a prospect steal from their rivals (Pérez or Hülkenberg)...a surprise contract buyout (Räikkönen)...

McLaren
Confirmed: Jenson Button
Not Confirmed: Lewis Hamilton
Possibilities: Re-sign Hamilton...go for the obvious and take on the absolute archetype of today's McLaren driver personality-wise (di Resta)...

Lotus
Confirmed: Kimi Räikkönen
Not Confirmed: Romain Grosjean
Possibilities: Re-sign Grosjean...take on a young driver with potential (Grosjean)...go for someone with a few podium finishes on his résumé (Grosjean)...

Ferrari
Confirmed: Fernando Alonso
Not Confirmed: Felipe Massa
Possibilities: Re-sign Massa (to be a Ferrari road car development tester and Le Mans GTE driver)...promote some kid who most certainly isn't ready for the F1 podium (Pérez)...get a pair of steady hands (Webber)...do some crazy, elaborate deal where Pérez spends one more year at Sauber while another driver spends one more year in F1 before while being groomed for a mangerial role within the team (Schumacher)... No idea....which makes the idea of Massa again likely.

Mercedes
Confirmed: Nico Rosberg
Not Confirmed: Michael Schumacher
Possibilities: Re-sign Schumacher...promote the guy they've invested six years in (di Resta)...promote the guy next to him (Hülkenberg)...go after the guy they apparently have no interest in (Hamilton)...

Sauber
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Kamui Kobayashi and Sergio Pérez
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...reluctantly take orders from Ferrari (Massa)...gladly take other orders from Ferrari (keep Pérez for another year)...

Williams
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Pastor Maldonado and Bruno Senna
Possibilities: Wait for money (Maldonado, Senna, Bottas who looks pretty good out there on Fridays)...Someone with cash...maybe Buemi?

Force India
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Nico Hülkenberg and Paul di Resta
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both driver...follow the line of succession (Bianchi)...let Mercedes call the shots (Bird...who apparently has signed a 2013 desal with the team, but it may be as third driver)...something crazy (Wickens hasn't done well in DTM, but allegedly chose DTM over GP2 because of implications for 2013) Bruno Senna...maybe...if he's lucky

Toro Rosso
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Éric Vergne
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...let one go to the big club and wait for orders (Red Bull don't have anyone I'm aware of who is in a series close enough to F1)...go to the third driver (Buemi)...grow distant from Red Bull (anyone floating around)

Caterham
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Heikki Kovalainen and Vitaly Petrov
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers (Kovalainen deal is close)...please the American sponsors with their third (Rossi)...take the money from their other third (van der Garde)...might see Keikki in Ferrari red....maybe Alugesari to replace him...someon at least on that sort of talent level

Marussia
Confirmed: Timo Glock
Not Confirmed: Charles Pic
Possibilities: Best offer...me????

HRT
Confirmed: Pedro de la Rosa
Not Confirmed: Narain Karthikeyan
Possibilities: Zsolt Baumgartner  any person with money....and they don't mind not finishing races or starting them or being lapped a half dozen times

[dribbler]

The interesting moves are Massa, Hamilton, Webber and Schumacher. The rest make up the numbers. Nice list though.

[The Shadow]

Wouldn't be surprised if they all just stay where they are. If next season is going to be the same as this one, there will be little incentive to move to a different team and build new working relationships. Better spend the time getting your set up right with the engineers who you know, and who know you.

[Insider]

Massa, on 17 June 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Something for the off-weekends...I sympathize with the teams not wanting the calendar to go past 20, but if you scheduled 52 races, I really wouldn't mind.

We've had some exciting racing this year and a lot of drivers moving around the points standings and results week-to-week...so will anyone big be moving around in the drivers' market?  In order by current WCC standings, with all possibilities being purely speculative, and with all things confirmed being purely on paper:

Red Bull
Confirmed: Sebastian Vettel
Not Confirmed: Mark Webber
Possibilities: Re-sign Webber...some guy who is leading the WDC (Hamilton)...a promotion from the juniors (Ricciardo, Vergne)...a steady number two (Kovalainen)...a prospect steal from their rivals (Pérez or Hülkenberg)...a surprise contract buyout (Räikkönen)...
Actually don't think mark is going anywhere. Vergne is way below par. I like Kovi. Solid pro and points aggregator. Kimi is a No.1 driver but I don't think Lotus are safe. He may be shopping already. I get that feeling.

McLaren
Confirmed: Jenson Button
Not Confirmed: Lewis Hamilton
Possibilities: Re-sign Hamilton...go for the obvious and take on the absolute archetype of today's McLaren driver personality-wise (di Resta)...
Lewis is restless and his environment may have worn thin on him. He's been around the team for two decades. I believe Di Resta is the best option if LH goes.

Lotus
Confirmed: Kimi Räikkönen
Not Confirmed: Romain Grosjean
Possibilities: Re-sign Grosjean...take on a young driver with potential (Grosjean)...go for someone with a few podium finishes on his résumé (Grosjean)...
This team has problems financially, believe me and Kimi is not a happy puppy. He has few options though.

Ferrari
Confirmed: Fernando Alonso
Not Confirmed: Felipe Massa
Possibilities: Re-sign Massa (to be a Ferrari road car development tester and Le Mans GTE driver)...promote some kid who most certainly isn't ready for the F1 podium (Pérez)...get a pair of steady hands (Webber)...do some crazy, elaborate deal where Pérez spends one more year at Sauber while another driver spends one more year in F1 before while being groomed for a mangerial role within the team (Schumacher)...
Agreed

Mercedes
Confirmed: Nico Rosberg
Not Confirmed: Michael Schumacher
Possibilities: Re-sign Schumacher...promote the guy they've invested six years in (di Resta)...promote the guy next to him (Hülkenberg)...go after the guy they apparently have no interest in (Hamilton)...
Hamilton for Schumi

Sauber
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Kamui Kobayashi and Sergio Pérez
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...reluctantly take orders from Ferrari (Massa)...gladly take other orders from Ferrari (keep Pérez for another year)...
Kobi has lost his mojo. Peréz and Kovi - go and win something.

Williams
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Pastor Maldonado and Bruno Senna
Possibilities: Wait for money (Maldonado, Senna, Bottas who looks pretty good out there on Fridays)...
It's all about cash at Grove. Mad Donald and Bottas

Force India
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Nico Hülkenberg and Paul di Resta
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...follow the line of succession (Bianchi)...let Mercedes call the shots (Bird...who apparently has signed a 2013 deal with the team, but it may be as third driver)...something crazy (Wickens hasn't done well in DTM, but allegedly chose DTM over GP2 because of implications for 2013)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If they want to get serious about reaching the front of the grid though get Kovi in to support DiResta. The Hulk is not sparkling.

Toro Rosso
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Éric Vergne
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers...let one go to the big club and wait for orders (Red Bull don't have anyone I'm aware of who is in a series close enough to F1)...go to the third driver (Buemi)...grow distant from Red Bull (anyone floating around)
Vergne is a real disappointment but STR is a training school and they don't spend money on drivers.

Caterham
Confirmed: Nothing
Not Confirmed: Heikki Kovalainen and Vitaly Petrov
Possibilities: Re-sign one or both drivers (Kovalainen deal is close)...please the American sponsors with their third (Rossi)...take the money from their other third (van der Garde)...
Kovi needs to extract himself from this mess of a team.

Marussia
Confirmed: Timo Glock
Not Confirmed: Charles Pic
Possibilities: Best offer
Who cares?

HRT
Confirmed: Pedro de la Rosa
Not Confirmed: Narain Karthikeyan
Possibilities: Zsolt Baumgartner
Whatever!

[Massa]

If you believe everything you read...Hamilton is staying and Webber is staying.

Lame.

[HandyNZL]

I do believe everything I read....

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

HandyNZL, on 22 June 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

I do believe everything I read....

You owe me $1,000 please leave in a brown envelope by the waste bin in Victoria Station

[Insider]

I am going to predict the following driver market moves for 2013. Is it controversial - hell, yes!

Ferrari
F Alonso
M Webber

RBR
S Vettel
K Raikkonen


Sauber
S Perez
F Massa

Mercedes
L Hamilton
K Rosberg

McLaren
J Button
P Di Resta

[LabradoRacer]

Hamilton may stay put at Macca as he says he doesn't see too many problems with signing a new contract. Who goes from/to Mercedes in that case?

Massa willing to go to Sauber next year, if Ferrari give him the heave-ho. Possible Ferrari-Sauber swap of drivers, with Perez coming in.

[Massa]

Massa's problem is that he still wants to get paid.  Ferrari will pay him more to not race than any team will pay him to race.  Massa could test road cars, be a "brand ambassador" for Fiat in Brazil, race Le Mans GTE...if the rumors are true that Fiat is going to do an IndyCar engine program through Dodge or Alfa Romeo, maybe Massa will join Rubens over there, since the other suppliers in Indy have been using "factory" drivers (Honda with Pagenaud and Sato, for example, Lotus with Alesi for another)...I'm sure they'll find something nice and fun for him to do.

Ferrari keep saying they won't promote Pérez...I guess it's all going to depend on Vettel.  There is that report that Vettel has a 2014 pre-agreement, but even if he doesn't, do Ferrari not want to commit to Pérez (a long-term prospect) so that they can be in the running for a bidding war on Vettel, assuming Vettel hasn't actually signed anything with them yet?  It would really just screw Pérez to have him at Ferrrari for one year and then replace him with Vettel; the long-term plan may be a Vettel/Pérez pairing after a few years of Alonso/Vettel...

I'm not saying I believe that will happen, but I wonder if that's what Ferrari wants to happen, and so they won't promote Pérez not-so-much because of readiness, as they say, but more because their plans with him are even more long-term than they appear.

I figure it's more likely that they put in a ringer for 2013, try for Vettel in 2014, and end up with Pérez in 2014 as Vettel stays on with Red Bull.  But I think that if they're trying for Vettel, that explains the hesitation with Pérez.  I hope it doesn't screw up his career because he has some potential.  Signing a development deal with Ferrari seems like a dream, but they way they're managed, I'm not sure I'd want them involved in my young, promising career...

[JHS18]

Insider, on 22 June 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Mercedes
L Hamilton
K Rosberg

Keke Rosberg making a comeback? Now that WOULD be controversial...

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Massa, on 22 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Massa's problem is that he still wants to get paid.

It staggers me that Massa has managed to cling on as long as he has. Do you think there is a similar situation to when Mikey where Massa is in effect a Rubens/Irvine at Alonso's request? i.e. fast enough but no challenge?

[Imatool]

Webber - Red Bull - Confirmed

http://www.redbull.c...021243232289802

Edited by Imatool, 10 July 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[Quiet One]

That's it, then. No big moves to RBR, so I guess not many big news in the other  top teams either. Unless Lewis does something outlandish (like leaving Macca for HRT), if Schuey stays then it will be same as it ever was.

[Rainmaster]

Indeed. Looks like 2014 will be a busier year for the driver market.

[Quiet One]

New rumour: Hamilton in talks with Lotus.

IF (big "if") that's gonna ever happen, that would mean Kimi out. I guess the difference in performance between Kimi and Romain is not enough to compensate the difference in wages, unless Kimi manages to win in the next few races.

So...where would Kimi go, assuming he stays in F1? Merc (the original Lewis option?), Sauber/Williams´replacing one of their defective drivers? Not sure they can afford him.

Then again...what about Kimi to Ferrari? I know, I know, they didn't part ways in the best of terms but is not as if he is the kind of guy to hold a grudge for long and Ferrari has no reason to actually hold a gridge against him as they were the ones who decided to end the contract early.

And this ends my humble contribution to the silly season for today.

[Rainmaster]

I never even thought of that. I thought Hambone was close to a new Mclaren deal, to be honest. I'd be surprised if he considered Lotus, who would offer less money and probably less chance of success (even this season they didn't manage to win a race yet). Even Macca's bad season is better in terms of results than one of Lotus' most impressive.

In any case I don't think Kimi is on that much money at Lotus, according to estimates obviously, and he has a two year contract. Although contracts don't mean too much it would still be a very odd decision from Lotus, considering Kimi hasn't publicly slated the team or anything even close to that. Okay they had the steering issue and Grosjean has been more impressive, but still seems premature to retire a driver based on what happened so far. Then again, I think Lotus has a few screws loose somewhere with its management, so it could happen.

[BradSpeedMan]

Guys pls...it's the points that matter... so Grosjean has been impressive at qualifying , and also not in the races.... Kimi's plusminus 25 ahead, and consistently brought home the points. Why would they even consider Hamilton?

[Quiet One]

Rainmaster, on 10 July 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I never even thought of that. I thought Hambone was close to a new Mclaren deal, to be honest. I'd be surprised if he considered Lotus, who would offer less money and probably less chance of success (even this season they didn't manage to win a race yet). Even Macca's bad season is better in terms of results than one of Lotus' most impressive.

In any case I don't think Kimi is on that much money at Lotus, according to estimates obviously, and he has a two year contract. Although contracts don't mean too much it would still be a very odd decision from Lotus, considering Kimi hasn't publicly slated the team or anything even close to that. Okay they had the steering issue and Grosjean has been more impressive, but still seems premature to retire a driver based on what happened so far. Then again, I think Lotus has a few screws loose somewhere with its management, so it could happen.

Well if we follow the logic of this rumour, we can judge the pros and cons:

Hamiton --> Lotus:

Pros: A competitive car (perhaps around Macca's level, but on the rise, unlike Macca). A reputedly more relaxed environment than at Macca. An ambitious, but good natured teammate in Grosjean, some kind of Button, but with facial paralysis. Probably a better deal regarding sponsors and trophies A black and golden car that once drove Ayrton...

Cons: Grosjean is to Pocchie what Hamilton was originally to Macca. Bouiller loves the guy (that's why I think Kimi is the one to get the boot there). Long term prospects will always be worse at Lotus than at Macca. Less money for sure. Sooner or later somebody will notice that the guy with the yellow helmet in the black and gold car is NOT Ayrton...

Kimi to Ferrari:

Pros: a better prospect  than at Lotus. More money. With Alonso around, all he has to do is drive as fast as he can and not worry about the car, Alonso is the guy to worry about such things. An environment he already knows. Those tasty, sweet ice creams they have...

Cons: Their past together.

Note: Notice how I don't mention anything about Alonso wanting/not wanting  him at the team. Webber admitted he was in talks with Ferrari. Alonso must have known and he admitted that he has a say in his next team mates choice. If he accepted Webber who he knows well and who is a guy that friendship or not would have never accepted being Alonsos's bitch I think he will have no qualms accepting Kimi either which is not a prima donna at all. (I think the only thing that would unsettle him now would be that...as would unsettle any established driver in any team)

[Rainmaster]

Yeah, that covers most of the angles. Though, like Brad said, I still don't really see Lotus' incentive to sign Hamilton and do something as dramatic as ending a contract early. I think it makes little sense from Ham's perspective and not much from Lotus', unless Kimi's relationship with the team already turned quite sour which somehow I don't believe (he's too much of a professional guy for that to be the case, I think).

[BradSpeedMan]

Rainmaster, on 10 July 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Yeah, that covers most of the angles. Though, like Brad said, I still don't really see Lotus' incentive to sign Hamilton and do something as dramatic as ending a contract early. I think it makes little sense from Ham's perspective and not much from Lotus', unless Kimi's relationship with the team already turned quite sour which somehow I don't believe (he's too much of a professional guy for that to be the case, I think).

http://www.lotusf1te...th.html?lang=fr

[Quiet One]

Calm down, Brad! You are hyperventilating!

We are merely building a mental excercise based on a rumour about Lotus talks with Lewis. Nobody is saying that Kimi is going to get the boot, except withing  the logic of that rumour!

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 10 July 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Calm down, Brad! You are hyperventilating!

We are merely building a mental excercise based on a rumour about Lotus talks with Lewis. Nobody is saying that Kimi is going to get the boot, except withing  the logic of that rumour!

Just wanted to show the true state of affairs

[Ikyrotz]

Lewis to Lotus to replace Kimi doesn't make any sense. They can't afford Lewis' salary demands, especially considering they would have to pay Kimi off of his second year. More importantly, why would they replace Kimi? He has been scoring lots of points, been very fast and brought lots of attention to Lotus. More likely options for Lewis are to replace Massa at Ferrari or Michael at Mercedes.

[Massa]

1. Grosjean...Räikkönen...they've both had their moments and I'm just impressed that Lotus are fighting for second in the WCC with two drivers who haven't raced since 2009...couldn't care less which one of the two is better than the other; they're both doing well all things considered.

2. Hamilton isn't going anywhere.  He has nowhere to go.

3. It would make sense for Ferrari to ditch Massa, simply because they can pay someone else a lot less in 2013 to do the same or better job.  Because of this, I suspect that Massa will return to Ferrari.

4. Just like we said "well maybe in 2013" back in 2011, we can now say "well maybe in 2014."  And guess what?  Nothing big is going to happen then, either.  Silly me for making the thread...but at the same time, F1's in a place where we don't need driver/team movement for it to be more competitive or for it to shuffle things around.  It's shuffling each and every week!  So I'm not too disappointed.

[BradSpeedMan]

Massa, on 10 July 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

2. Hamilton isn't going anywhere.  He has nowhere to go.

exactly!

[LabradoRacer]

Is Sauber on Hamilton's radar?

[Rainmaster]

Massa, on 10 July 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

1. Grosjean...Räikkönen...they've both had their moments and I'm just impressed that Lotus are fighting for second in the WCC with two drivers who haven't raced since 2009...couldn't care less which one of the two is better than the other; they're both doing well all things considered.

2. Hamilton isn't going anywhere.  He has nowhere to go.

3. It would make sense for Ferrari to ditch Massa, simply because they can pay someone else a lot less in 2013 to do the same or better job.  Because of this, I suspect that Massa will return to Ferrari.

4. Just like we said "well maybe in 2013" back in 2011, we can now say "well maybe in 2014."  And guess what?  Nothing big is going to happen then, either.  Silly me for making the thread...but at the same time, F1's in a place where we don't need driver/team movement for it to be more competitive or for it to shuffle things around.  It's shuffling each and every week!  So I'm not too disappointed.

Well, slightly unusually I thought, Webber admitted he had talks with Ferrari. I can only speculate the reason those talks didn't work out is because Ferrari were only offering a one year contract, something which Webber is happy to accept at Red Bull but not at Ferrari for next year, as it would be his last team. Webber's admission tells us that 1) Ferrari is at least looking to replace Massa, and 2) (speculation) they are looking for a driver for 2013 only, which lends support to Vettel having some kind of deal in place for 2014.

Depending on a few things, 2014 could be a bigger year for the driver market. But that means everything probably will stay exactly the same

Edited by Rainmaster, 10 July 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[Massa]

True.

Though I don't think they have a deal with Vettel.  I think they just want to leave 2014 open to make a run for Vettel, while also developing Pérez through 2013 at Sauber such that he, being the more likely option for 2014 instead of Vettel, will be a suitable Plan B.  I just hope Ferrari don't mismanage Pérez in the process of bidding for Vettel because he does have potential to be something really good in the future.