Mclaren Catastrophe!

[Insider 0]

If this is sandbagging then it's the best I've seen in 40 plus years as an F1 fan and participating employee. Woking's pre-season can only be described as utterly shambolic. They were late to the party, obviously did not have the 2011 car in production until the last knockings of the 2010 campaign and have ended up many moons late and 3000 kms short with with a stunningly beautiful...............pig. The car is short of pace and parts, unreliable and uncompetitive. If this had happened at Ferrari or Red Bull, Whitmarsh would be selling funny hats and ice creams in some dodgy east coast English seaside town by now. Good God! What would have happened if Dubai had gone ahead on date! It doesn't bear thinking about. When the team said they were bringing last year's car to the first test at Jerez, I smelt a big rat. Who didn't? No other team at the sharp end of the grid decided to test the new tyres on a car they weren't going to ultimately run on. Whitmarsh said it was for comparison purposes. Crap! With a solid front wing and flexible rear back in the mix any comparison data would be almost useless. It's a huge c#ck up and I really don't see how they are going to rectify it. At this moment in time, this year's McLaren looks like last year's Mercedes and easy meat for the likes of Torro Rossa and Sauber even. God help Jenson and Lewis - they need a miracle now.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Hm. It appears my much-doubted opinions on the McLaren have been proven out, somewhat. A small helping of crow to a few posters, I should think...(and a bit more for me because I doubted Newey, who has designed a truly great car).

It's too bad because McLaren have a fantastic reputation for transforming their dogs into show ponies...but only if they have a good 'base' chassis to work from. I fear this year will be different. There are too many factors that dictated their awful design. The big thing this year will be a teams ability to shorten the 'coke bottle' back end of the sidepod to allow airflow over the rear beam and diffuser ends. McLaren's design doesn't really allow that. They'd have to scrap almost all of their car to do it...then there's the horrid front wing. I know McLaren tend to stubbornly look to their own techies for solutions, but I would think now is the right time to look at Red Bull and steal all they can.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Hm. It appears my much-doubted opinions on the McLaren have been proven out, somewhat. A small helping of crow to a few posters, I should think...(and a bit more for me because I doubted Newey, who has designed a truly great car).

It's too bad because McLaren have a fantastic reputation for transforming their dogs into show ponies...but only if they have a good 'base' chassis to work from. I fear this year will be different. There are too many factors that dictated their awful design. The big thing this year will be a teams ability to shorten the 'coke bottle' back end of the sidepod to allow airflow over the rear beam and diffuser ends. McLaren's design doesn't really allow that. They'd have to scrap almost all of their car to do it...then there's the horrid front wing. I know McLaren tend to stubbornly look to their own techies for solutions, but I would think now is the right time to look at Red Bull and steal all they can.

true, apparently the car was designed around the exhaust system which appears to not be working therefor is harder to fix....

which brings me on to the next issue at hand...

Since Ferrari has been the most reliable with the most laps so far, and Mclaren a dog in testing...who would like to bet that the Ferrari breaks down come first race while Mclaren has a stellar race

[Kopite Girl 0]

Mike, with respect I think McL have done enough stealing over the last couple of years or so. 968 pages or whatever of stealing. They know the FIA are watching them like a hawk, which makes them look to their own guys for solutions.

I really don't think there's anything to really worry about. I'm not worried. In fact I'm quite confident that McL will not fail their drivers, and come up with the goods. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't feel I am. JB and LH still have a fighting chance. And I know they'll take that chance.

[HandyNZL 1]

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[Insider 0]

Hm. It appears my much-doubted opinions on the McLaren have been proven out, somewhat. A small helping of crow to a few posters, I should think...(and a bit more for me because I doubted Newey, who has designed a truly great car).

It's too bad because McLaren have a fantastic reputation for transforming their dogs into show ponies...but only if they have a good 'base' chassis to work from. I fear this year will be different. There are too many factors that dictated their awful design. The big thing this year will be a teams ability to shorten the 'coke bottle' back end of the sidepod to allow airflow over the rear beam and diffuser ends. McLaren's design doesn't really allow that. They'd have to scrap almost all of their car to do it...then there's the horrid front wing. I know McLaren tend to stubbornly look to their own techies for solutions, but I would think now is the right time to look at Red Bull and steal all they can.

I think it's a rebuild at best. The problem is, this will be the second time Lewis has been handed an uncompetitive car in three seasons and he will definitely be window shopping now at the very least.

[Insider 0]

true, apparently the car was designed around the exhaust system which appears to not be working therefor is harder to fix....

which brings me on to the next issue at hand...

Since Ferrari has been the most reliable with the most laps so far, and Mclaren a dog in testing...who would like to bet that the Ferrari breaks down come first race while Mclaren has a stellar race

The exhaust was an badly attempted copy of the Renault. The late appearance of the car leads me to believe they needed a look at the opposition at the first test before they completed it! I think it was that desperate. What can we possibly deduce from that?

[Insider 0]

Mike, with respect I think McL have done enough stealing over the last couple of years or so. 968 pages or whatever of stealing. They know the FIA are watching them like a hawk, which makes them look to their own guys for solutions.

I really don't think there's anything to really worry about. I'm not worried. In fact I'm quite confident that McL will not fail their drivers, and come up with the goods. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't feel I am. JB and LH still have a fighting chance. And I know they'll take that chance.

I admire your loyalty Steph and your astute comment about the FIA. It's a pig, my dear - a veritable pig

[Quiet One 15]

I agree and contrary to what many people would think, I am truly sad about it. As Sean pointed out McLaren has yet again deprived us of enjoying a Lewis at his peak. McLaren is where Ferrari was a couple of years back. They can't synchronize their cycles grrr. I want a Schumi vs Nando vs Lewis (vs Kubica...but we all know about that) full out battle. I dont want the schmucks at RBR with their super car and I don't consider anybody else at the moment as capable of actually delivering an epic battle.

The only consolation is that Macca is one of the few teams capable of develop a car till the end and do it with blind resolution (a la Renault). But I guess things look pretty gloomy if we are expecting anything more than a Ferrari vs RBR duel right now.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The exhaust was an badly attempted copy of the Renault. The late appearance of the car leads me to believe they needed a look at the opposition at the first test before they completed it! I think it was that desperate. What can we possibly deduce from that?

I can't believe it's THAT bleak, surely not.

Lewis to mercedes then, should'nt be a bad combo with them on the up, especially for next year...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I don't understand why they went so radical and not evolutionary as they had a good car with an improved wing at Abu Dhabi. WHY??? They always seem to catch up like late during the season and this is usually when we hear fighting talk from Lewis for the following year. This year they clearly shot themselves in the foot... I don't know what to say and I'm really disappointed as I expected them to hustle with RB and Ferrari this year.

[Max Mosley 2]

I think it's a rebuild at best. The problem is, this will be the second time Lewis has been handed an uncompetitive car in three seasons and he will definitely be window shopping now at the very least.

Yep. It seems catastrophic on two counts. It's really the 3rd consecutive season that McLaren haven't had a pace-setting car - it can happen to anyone once in a while but 3 years running is surely evidence of something seriously awry at some stage of the car development in the team. And on top of that, these days reliability problems for a top team on this scale are really strange going into the first race. There's no doubt an element of guesswork involved in getting the performance optimised when designing the car but to build a car that won't run a full race distance even after weeks of testing is again evidence of the technical team not working together very well imho.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Just read this..."Favourites? I think it is still the top four teams – McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull Racing and Ferrari, and maybe this year Renault, and Williams also is having a good winter. So it is very open for Australia. Hopefully we can be there and we can be fighting for the podium, and for the victory. In three or four races there will be a much clearer picture and hopefully we will be there."

So Alonso, like Steph, seem to have more faith than us...

[Caesar 0]

I can't believe it's THAT bleak, surely not.

Lewis to mercedes then, should'nt be a bad combo with them on the up, especially for next year...

yeah right, when car is not the best , then run away. driver has to put his experience into car development, he has to help the team, like schumi and alonso, in ferrari and renault. you may say what you want, but famous alonso's 0.6 sec. is hiding in his driving experience and ability to transfer car behavior on track to engineers. schumi has that ability, but lewis does not, not yet. lewis just drives the car. in 2008 mclaren had car that was leaning on 2007 season car plus data from 2007 season races, mostly thanks to alonso's experience and his data. when alonso went back in renault mclaren lost 0.6 sec because lewis does not have 0.6 sec, he just drives the car, drives his heart out, drives his tyres out,... whatever. fvck the exhaust, bring alonso back and you will have 0.6 sec faster car.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

yeah right, when car is not the best , then run away. driver has to put his experience into car development, he has to help the team, like schumi and alonso, in ferrari and renault. you may say what you want, but famous alonso's 0.6 sec. is hiding in his driving experience and ability to transfer car behavior on track to engineers. schumi has that ability, but lewis does not, not yet. lewis just drives the car. in 2008 mclaren had car that was leaning on 2007 season car plus data from 2007 season races, mostly thanks to alonso's experience and his data. when alonso went back in renault mclaren lost 0.6 sec because lewis does not have 0.6 sec, he just drives the car, drives his heart out, drives his tyres out,... whatever. fvck the exhaust, bring alonso back and you will have 0.6 sec faster car.

so what happened when Alonso went back to Renault. Lost his mojo?

[yurp 0]

Agree with almost everyone here. It's basically been said. Would have liked to see more than just RB vs Ferrari again, but looks like that will be the case.

Maccas should have had an earlier move to their 2011 cars than those two teams, but they seem to have missed the oportunity. Shame.

[Rainmaster 7]

It's a shame to only have two teams who look like they can challenge for wins. Then again, we were spoiled last year. Lets hope that the revised Mercedes can keep up with Ferrari and Red Bull, at least!

[HandyNZL 1]

If you have tyres that are destroyed quickly by a fast car, then it might not be such a bad thing to have a slightly slower car....and lets be honest...its only a few tenths or so.

Lets just have some racing which is when it actually matters.

[freaky2 1]

I haven't watched any tests so I'll put the axe on standby for now. Still, I do believe the results I read about and it's a bummer. But what is this about Mercedes being fastest in practice lately? Maybe this year is Schumi and Rosbergs year to show off.

About Lewis window shopping, I think it's his right to do so. I believe it's more worthy to stay and help the team, but to be honest not that many drivers do it, so it doesn't seem a horrible idea to me if he changes teams. We do want to see him race, right?

[Caesar 0]

so what happened when Alonso went back to Renault. Lost his mojo?

renault wasn't at the same level as mclaren, red bull and ferrari,not enough money.when he went to ferrari in 2010 he didn't contribute with car development, but he contributed by not giving up fighting until the last moment and with pushing the team not to give up, although some people made fun of his statements

[Senna's Ghost 0]

Hm. It appears my much-doubted opinions on the McLaren have been proven out, somewhat. A small helping of crow to a few posters, I should think...(and a bit more for me because I doubted Newey, who has designed a truly great car).

It's too bad because McLaren have a fantastic reputation for transforming their dogs into show ponies...but only if they have a good 'base' chassis to work from. I fear this year will be different. There are too many factors that dictated their awful design. The big thing this year will be a teams ability to shorten the 'coke bottle' back end of the sidepod to allow airflow over the rear beam and diffuser ends. McLaren's design doesn't really allow that. They'd have to scrap almost all of their car to do it...then there's the horrid front wing. I know McLaren tend to stubbornly look to their own techies for solutions, but I would think now is the right time to look at Red Bull and steal all they can.

My criticism of your post on the thread relating to the McLaren launch was to do with your immediate response that the car would be slow based on the publicity shots taken in Berlin on launch day and the other images of the car that were released around that time. The car hadn't turned a wheel so no opinion could be drawn on the relative pace of the car to the others on the grid at that time. Now, as testing has gone on it looks like McLaren have got themselves into a bit of a mess with their car and you may well be proved right, but no-one, unless you are privvy to the numbers that the car has been generating in the wind tunnel, CFD and simulator throughout the winter, can assess whether the car will be slower of faster by looking at the few photos. For all I know you could just as easily flip a coin and base your opinion of the cars performance on that outcome. I stand by my criticism of your post at that time.

Now the other question, the bigger question, is how did McLaren get into this position? This is a head scratcher. On the outside looking in McLaren have the best of everything in terms of facilities, resources and some very clever engineers and designers and a huge amount of data. They also had a reasonablely competitive car last year on which they could build upon and improve. So why has it turned out seemingly so badly? Cars these days are designed by the numbers that they generate. Nothing gets added to a car unless it car be shown that the part(s) improve performance in some way, or are a benefit to performance. If this car is as troublesome as it first appears then it will be the second car in the last three years that McLaren have produced that cannot challenge for the title. That is a real worry and will have the likes of Whitmarsh and his senior team wondering where the disconnect is. How is it that the performance figures say one thing and the reality is another?

I haven't been following testing as much as I would of liked to. I don't know if the drivers have complained of anything in particular with the car in terms of balance or handling (unlikely to do so at such an early stage) but it appears that the McLaren is suffering more from reliability issues and they have not been able to complete enough laps. If this is the case then there is hope for them. The car itself might not be as bad as it has been portrayed and once the reliabilty issues have been addressed they can develop the car as they would do over the season to improve it's performance.

I'll guarantee you that they are not sandbagging in any way, shape or form. From what I have seen and read of testing RBR are streets ahead. We could be in for a predictable season. I hope not.

[KoolMonkey 0]

The McLaren MP4-18 was apparently a fantastic car. Sadly it was never used in a race, but for a very good reason, it was fragile and prone to breakdowns. Even still McLaren almost got there with an updated version of their previous years car in the MP4-17. Oh how close Kimi came that year to taking the crown. I see parallels in this years car. Granted they can't use last years one, but weirder things have happened in F1.

But back to this current turd of a car. McLaren in what can only be described as utter lunacy have decided to use a different car designer each year. So gone is the continuity, and replaced with something you'd see in a college theatre troupe. McLaren are better than this, but Whitmarsh is looking more like Nick Fry than Ron Dennis here.

McLaren will turn this around I'm pretty sure, but to lose this much ground at the beginning of the season, they may not have a better car until the European races begin. By then it'll be too late, and the best they can aim for is a race win or two.

[AleHop 0]

It doesn't look good for McLaren, it does look very good for RedBull. Ferrari still keep their hopes and Mercedes Brawn-Schumi, who knows?

We need 3 or 4 races.

[HandyNZL 1]

The McLaren MP4-18 was apparently a fantastic car. Sadly it was never used in a race, but for a very good reason, it was fragile and prone to breakdowns. Even still McLaren almost got there with an updated version of their previous years car in the MP4-17. Oh how close Kimi came that year to taking the crown. I see parallels in this years car. Granted they can't use last years one, but weirder things have happened in F1.

But back to this current turd of a car. McLaren in what can only be described as utter lunacy have decided to use a different car designer each year. So gone is the continuity, and replaced with something you'd see in a college theatre troupe. McLaren are better than this, but Whitmarsh is looking more like Nick Fry than Ron Dennis here.

McLaren will turn this around I'm pretty sure, but to lose this much ground at the beginning of the season, they may not have a better car until the European races begin. By then it'll be too late, and the best they can aim for is a race win or two.

That's actually incorrect. The MP4-18, for what ever reason, kept failing side impact and front impact tests. It was never prone to breakdowns, nor proven to be fragile. It was the first genesis of the current RBR. As the season was well underway, the MP4-17D proving competitive and Newey on the way out, it was shelved.

[HandyNZL 1]

It doesn't look good for McLaren, it does look very good for RedBull. Ferrari still keep their hopes and Mercedes Brawn-Schumi, who knows?

We need 3 or 4 races.

Mercedes Rosberg buddy. AIn't going to be Schumi.