Vettel Haters

[KoolMonkey 0]

I'm not a Vettel hater. I think the only thing he did wrong was apologize in the manner he did. If he had come out and said I want to win, or had said verbatim exactly what Webber did when he was asked to explain trying to pass Vettel at Silverstone, then he'd be a legend in my book. In one foul swoop he would have put the focus back on Webber's own indisgressions specifically in relation to team orders, and also shown he wasn't going to be bullied by the English press.

The hate directed towards him is not justified in my book. What does he have to do, for people to get off his back. All this talk about him having the best car on the grid is nonsense when you look at Webbers results. Go look at them and see having a good car doesn't automatically make you win races.

As for Schumi I hated the guy when he was in Ferrari. Hated how Benetton had flat out cheated with launch control. Every issue he had all the way up to Monaco '06 I was hating on the guy. Strange thing is I was a supporter during his comeback. Wished he'd stayed on another year actually.

[Jean-Pierre 0]

Well, maybe there is a relationship between success and whether we hate someone's personality or not. Maybe the more successful, the less hate? If that was the case, I suppose JV would probably become tolerable after his 45th F1 title.

And if it works the other way, I can't even imagine the lack of success that would be needed to make JV a likeable guy. Maybe being the last sperm. But then we wouldn't even be talking about this....ahh time for bed.

Well, we might close this argument with Frank WIlliam's famous comment about JV when Jacques was at Williams:

"Jacques is the only driver who can beat Shumacher"

I tend to agree with FW most of the times, and certainly in this case. Has JV gone to Renault (he had a contract on the table) instead of with Pollock and BAR (and its freak second boss), he might have had several other champioships.

[Massa 0]

As someone who didn't see Jacques Villeneuve in his prime, I can only go by YouTube, which somehow feels cheap. He made up 2 laps (made up, you know, back when racing required racing, not with wave-arounds, free passes, Lucky Dogs, or anything...made up...) on the entire field at Indianapolis in 1995 when he won. He was then one of the only guys to transition from CART to F1 successfully, apparently offering some neat rear suspension advice to Williams from his CART experience (or something like that; I last heard that story years ago). Anyway, it's too bad Villeneuve isn't respected, and it's too bad his career didn't play out better.

I will admit I disliked Villeneuve when he came into NASCAR and just crashed into everyone. Then I realized that wasn't Villeneuve; it was just NASCAR. So, I decided to dislike NASCAR instead of Villeneuve. Disliking someone for wrecking other drivers in a NASCAR race is like disliking someone for scoring the tie-breaker in a penalty kick situation to end a soccer match. You can't fault the athlete for the fact the sport allows events to be decided in utterly ridiculous ways (though I'd admit a penalty kick is less ridiculous than dumping someone with no consequences, but still...).

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Villeneuve in his CART days was amazing and he did a half-decent job in Williams too... shame about Honda.

Although Montoya in CART made Villeneuve look tame - sadly, aside from his lovely wife Connie, he did not bring a lot to F1...

Strange how success in CART/Champcar/Indycar tends to translate poorly into F1....

[Insider 0]

Everyone hates a whiner....oops! - sorry, winner

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Don't people hate Villeneuve (the Jack, not the Jill) too?

Well, as far as I know, both Jack and Jill went up a hill to obtain some water.

Jack unfortunately suffered a head-injury and Jill also had an accident.

Lack of local medical facilities meant the use of acetic acid and paper as a makeshift bandage for the concussion and fractured skull.

Jack's condition was later recorded as being "comfortable"

[Jean-Pierre 0]

Well, as far as I know, both Jack and Jill went up a hill to obtain some water.

Jack unfortunately suffered a head-injury and Jill also had an accident.

Lack of local medical facilities meant the use of acetic acid and paper as a makeshift bandage for the concussion and fractured skull.

Jack's condition was later recorded as being "comfortable"

Don't be so jealous about the New World's medical facilities access and quality, I'm sure you can find half decent ones in the UK (Old World).

It is like the drivers, we had Jacques and Gilles in the new world, but you had Damon Hill, of course, and others, but the only one whose skills approach the Villeneuve's is Hamilton. I heard Moss wasn't bad either.

[pabloh20 1]

Don't be so jealous about the New World's medical facilities access and quality, I'm sure you can find half decent ones in the UK (Old World).

It is like the drivers, we had Jacques and Gilles in the new world, but you had Damon Hill, of course, and others, but the only one whose skills approach the Villeneuve's is Hamilton. I heard Moss wasn't bad either.

Well, that was wildly out of left field from a nursery rhyme.......

Anyway, is the inference there that you think Lewis is the best British driver ever? Or is he the only one comparable, in your opinion, to the Villeneuve's style or ability?

Edit: Just can't type coherently at all today, well maybe not just today

[Massa 0]

Villeneuve in his CART days was amazing and he did a half-decent job in Williams too... shame about Honda.

Although Montoya in CART made Villeneuve look tame - sadly, aside from his lovely wife Connie, he did not bring a lot to F1...

Strange how success in CART/Champcar/Indycar tends to translate poorly into F1....

You know the United States likes its processed foods when Juan Pablo Montoya is an underwear model here:

(Yes, I realize he isn't a model, and that he was trying on a pair of underwear with a particular medical purpose, but the joke is funny because Montoya is not built like a normal underwear model, so he would only be one in the context of a place where everyone else was really not built like an underwear model, you see. It's quite the joke and it works on all levels).

Don't be so jealous about the New World's medical facilities access and quality, I'm sure you can find half decent ones in the UK (Old World).

It is like the drivers, we had Jacques and Gilles in the new world, but you had Damon Hill, of course, and others, but the only one whose skills approach the Villeneuve's is Hamilton. I heard Moss wasn't bad either.

Moss, Hill, both of those things are nouns.

(Yes, I realize that all surnames are actually nouns on their own, and that many function as "normal" words in some language, but the joke is funny because there may exist a mossy hill in this world, you see. It's quite the joke and it works on all levels).

Well, that was wildly out of left field from a nursery rhyme.......

Ah, yeah, but something out of left field is really not surprising in Britain, because your left field is my right field.

(Yes, I realize this isn't actually the case, and that it is just a saying, but the joke is funny because people drive on one side of the road in Britain and drive on a different side of the road in the United States, you see. It's quite the joke and it works on all levels).

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Well, that was wildly out of left field from a nursery rhyme.......

No, it was not a left-field, it was a hill that Jack and Jill went up....

And well done for spotting my slightly warped rendition of the well-known fable.

I am not worthy

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

You know the United States likes its processed foods when Juan Pablo Montoya is an underwear model here:

(Yes, I realize he isn't a model, and that he was trying on a pair of underwear with a particular medical purpose, but the joke is funny because Montoya is not built like a normal underwear model, so he would only be one in the context of a place where everyone else was really not built like an underwear model, you see. It's quite the joke and it works on all levels).

I don't know what is sadder, the fact you posted that or that I entered the URL to look at it <slaps head>. Anyway it now features a different bunch of underwear clad celebs... not pretty.

I did do a search on Montoya and only came up with:

"Hello I am Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!"

10 points if you get the cultural reference....

[pabloh20 1]

Ah, yeah, but something out of left field is really not surprising in Britain, because your left field is my right field.

(Yes, I realize this isn't actually the case, and that it is just a saying, but the joke is funny because people drive on one side of the road in Britain and drive on a different side of the road in the United States, you see. It's quite the joke and it works on all levels).

Define 'all levels'

[Quiet One 15]

I don't know what is sadder, the fact you posted that or that I entered the URL to look at it <slaps head>. Anyway it now features a different bunch of underwear clad celebs... not pretty.

I did do a search on Montoya and only came up with:

"Hello I am Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!"

10 points if you get the cultural reference....

I want my father back you son of a bitch!

Gotta be joking, The Princess Bride is one of the best movies I ever saw along with Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I still play with my nephews walking towards them undetrred by the things they throw at me telling them "Hello, my name Iñigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."

They never saw the movie but they laugh anyways.

Funnily enough,I do the same with the ladies but they don't seem to find it as amusing.

[Jean-Pierre 0]

Well, that was wildly out of left field from a nursery rhyme.......

Anyway, is the inference there that you think Lewis is the best British driver ever? Or is he the only one comparable, in your opinion, to the Villeneuve's style or ability?

Edit: Just can't type coherently at all today, well maybe not just today

I'll try to be coherent myself on this Friday nightmarish afternoon at work. Yes, of all the British drivers I've seen, I believe Hamilton is the best, and he is the only one whose style and abilities are comparable to Gilles'. But what do I know...

PS: remember English is not my first language (far from it I know) and I might misunderstand some of your UK allusions, inside jokes and stuff. So I might be out inleft field occasionally.

But I stick around anyways for some reason, UK forums being the ones I prefer.

[pabloh20 1]

I'll try to be coherent myself on this Friday nightmarish afternoon at work. Yes, of all the British drivers I've seen, I believe Hamilton is the best, and he is the only one whose style and abilities are comparable to Gilles'. But what do I know...

PS: remember English is not my first language (far from it I know) and I might misunderstand some of your UK allusions, inside jokes and stuff. So I might be out inleft field occasionally.

But I stick around anyways for some reason, UK forums being the ones I prefer.

Damn, my eyesight is getting worse.

No, it's fine, not a problem, Grabbie was referring to a nursery rhyme when he was talking about Jack and Jill, hence the rather random references.

If you think Lewis is the best of the British drivers, then there is not a problem with that either, it's your opinion after all. I was just asking in what respect you were making the comparison to Gilles & Jacques, purely out of curiosity as it's interesting to learn why other people rate certain drivers, etc.

[pabloh20 1]

Funnily enough,I do the same with the ladies but they don't seem to find it as amusing.

Really?? The best one, out of the two chat up lines you have, doesn't work?? There is no justice in this world.

[Jean-Pierre 0]

Damn, my eyesight is getting worse.

No, it's fine, not a problem, Grabbie was referring to a nursery rhyme when he was talking about Jack and Jill, hence the rather random references.

If you think Lewis is the best of the British drivers, then there is not a problem with that either, it's your opinion after all. I was just asking in what respect you were making the comparison to Gilles & Jacques, purely out of curiosity as it's interesting to learn why other people rate certain drivers, etc.

Gilles was not a calculating kind of guy, all he wanted is to race a car as fast as he could and he had a ball doing it. Everytime he took to the track, you could feel something special was happening. For us it seems he was always on the edge, bur for him the edge was his domaine. He has the abilities to live there all the time, or almost... until he met Vettel uhm, sorry, I mean Pironi.

Lewis is giving me the same impression, always on then edge and confortable there.

I saw a glimpse of that in Perez last week. People whinne, but the abilities required to do what he did are not common IMO.

Who is your best British driver ever?

[HandyNZL 1]

Jim Clark. No one better, ever, before or since (which is really the meaning of ever)

[Rainmaster 7]

Good shout there.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Cart back in the day when JV was driving was pretty awesome. The cars looked good, and had plenty of star drivers. Mansell also being there and winning a championship was epic. I was a huge JV fan. His Cart team wasn't a marque team on the level of McLaren, Ferrari or RBR, from memory it was more like a Force India or Sauber. He won, and won some more.

Indycar nowdays is rubbish. Ever since it split into two series, it's never come close to what it was before the split. The cars look like Sh#t, and I don't get any excitement from seeing the drivers who are competing. I noticed Sato is racing there which is good as I always like the old Banzai Master, but it's a shadow of it's once formidable self.

JV was pretty awesome in F1 too. He was so close to winning the WDC his first year, then got it in his second year. That's pretty consistent. But going to BAR, ah man in hindsight what a bummer. At least he made alot of money out of that foray. I'm sure he was convinced BAR/Honda would get it right eventually. But by sheer bad luck, and then a little good luck, they did in a way with Brawn. Too late for him though.

I've been a JV supporter for ages and always stood up for him when he got bashed, but now, well he's starting to get on my nerves. Some of his comments just irk me now and since he's not a driver, that feeling of supporting him has faded. I still respect his achievements though and there's nothing anyone can do to take those away. To say he was the best driver in the best car at the time, means you could also take a pot shot at Mansell too as he had the best car as well back when Williams was a force in F1. I know that's a simplistic analogy, but it gets tiring when people try and belittle past and current drivers achievements. Then we get Vettel, and all the spit flowing about how he's only good because he's got the best car. It never ends really. People just want to hate on others and will go for whatever angle to justify that hate.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I've been a JV supporter for ages and always stood up for him when he got bashed, but now, well he's starting to get on my nerves. Some of his comments just irk me now and since he's not a driver, that feeling of supporting him has faded. I still respect his achievements though and there's nothing anyone can do to take those away. To say he was the best driver in the best car at the time, means you could also take a pot shot at Mansell too as he had the best car as well back when Williams was a force in F1. I know that's a simplistic analogy, but it gets tiring when people try and belittle past and current drivers achievements. Then we get Vettel, and all the spit flowing about how he's only good because he's got the best car. It never ends really. People just want to hate on others and will go for whatever angle to justify that hate.

He really talks out of hi b*tt sometimes!!!

[pabloh20 1]

Gilles was not a calculating kind of guy, all he wanted is to race a car as fast as he could and he had a ball doing it. Everytime he took to the track, you could feel something special was happening. For us it seems he was always on the edge, bur for him the edge was his domaine. He has the abilities to live there all the time, or almost... until he met Vettel uhm, sorry, I mean Pironi.

Lewis is giving me the same impression, always on then edge and confortable there.

I saw a glimpse of that in Perez last week. People whinne, but the abilities required to do what he did are not common IMO.

Who is your best British driver ever?

Jim Clark is a very good shout, as Handy said, but for me personally it's Moss, mainly for the versatility of his driving.

[Quiet One 15]

Jim Clark is a very good shout, as Handy said, but for me personally it's Moss, mainly for the versatility of his driving.

Guy Edwards. Just because he drove in a Penthouse Magazine sponsored car.

[The Shadow 0]

Who is your best British driver ever?

Fullerton. Because back then it was just racing. No politics.

No prizes for guessing where that came from

[rwgordon 0]

He's my favourite tall poppy at the moment, I never liked Schumacher even though I respected his talent. It's one thing to come out and wipe the floor with the competition, but it's another to be a douchebag at the same time.