28 replies to this topic

[F1 FANatic]

Ok, I was watching an F1 documentary and I found that James Hunt had the most amazing luck of any driver to catch Lauda. Lauda had his crach that year, and was 25 points ahead, Hunt needs 6 races to pull close. then Lauda comes back and refuses to race because of the horendis condisions. Had Lauda not had his crash Hunt would never have come that close. Thats why I say Hunt was the luckest driver to win a WDC

what is your take

[kenneth]

I can agree on that with you...these days the 2 luckiest drivers are MS and FA so now who will be the most lucky gonna win this year ttitle and luck is onn FA side this time....but yeah MS and FA are the most 2 active drivers luckyyyyyy

[monza gorilla]

Yes, Hunt was lucky in some respects, but he was also in a position to capitalise on the situation. He also had some bad luck (British GP 76). He was a blindingly quick qualifier, and very fast in a race situation. We talk blithely about bringing a car home in a higher position than it deserved. Hunt won in a Hesketh! There may have been luck, but he was a worthy champion. More so than Keke Rosberg, for instance, or Damon Hill (not that either of them were undeserving - there are no undeserving WDCs), since he did not have the best car.

[Argento Reloaded]

James Hunt was one of the luckiest of all time, but Alain Prost when he took the 1986 WDC over Nigel mansell (last race/ Australia/ rear tyre destroyed) was close. Another lucky man was Nelson Piquet: when he won his first tittle (1981) he went to Las Vegas 2 points behind Carlos Reutemann, who was the poleman with his Williams, but after the relationship problems between Reutemann and the whole team (patrick Head and Alan Jones indeed) after his won on the brazilian GP at Interlagos (Reutemann won over Alan Jones making "deaf ears" to the team orders) suddenly gearbox problems appeared. The second gear "jumped" all the race. Conclusion: Piquet WDC, and 2 or 3 years later a former Williams mechanic said Patrick Head gave him order to put hands on the gearbox, confirming the paddock suspicacy. So Piquet was a lucky WDC too!

[monza gorilla]

Yes, I agree about Prost in 86 to a point. But again, he was in the right place to pick up the pieces. Eddie Irvine never managed that.

[cavallino]

Mika Hakkinen, '99

Despite the gifts he got all over the season, he was effectively level on points with Irvine and would have won on 1st/2nd palces (don't remember which), if Michael had let Eddie through.

Ayrton Senna, '90

Getting away with murder

[Argento Reloaded]

Another lucky winner was Niki Lauda 1984 version. He won the tittle because the McLaren Tag Porsche was the car to beat nad because he was lucky enough at the point to won the WDC by 0.5 poiny over Alain Prost. Why so lucky? The last race at the season was at Estoril and Prost won easily. Lauda must be third to won the WDC and he achieved this only a few laps to go because Nigel Mansell cosworth blew up! And another reason also gave Lauda the wdc: at Montecarlo Prost won because Jacky Ickx (race director) stopped the race due to rain and as the cars didn´t complete the75% of the race they got half the points (4,5 points for Prost) If Ickx never stopped the race (many consider there were a lot of pressure over him) a youngster called Ayrton Senna surely won by first time and Prost surely went second taking 6 points and wining the WDC by 1 point!!

[Autumnpuma]

For all the joking talk of 'luck', I just don't believe in such a lady. Everything is cause and effect; choice and action. Were I to believe in lady luck, I would say she kissed Damon Hill on his nether-regions in '96.

Of course, cause and effect being what it is, perhaps that wheel had a bit of help coming off....

Nahhhh

[whiskee]

Didier Pironi would have been an almost certain Champion without his accident, allowing Rosberg to narrowly pass him in points, 4 (?) races to go. Keke had a steady season, but I don't think he would have made it without that.

[monza gorilla]

Welcome to you Whiskee. I agree, although I was hoping John Watson would take it.

[jemstride]

well i've been following the sport since 1998 and I have to say Alonso. If it werent for kimi's constant misfortunes, alonso wouldnt have stood a chance. i cant really speak for other champs down the years. Piquet 1987 seems to be pretty lucky, but then I guess it was mansells own fault that he crashed

[Ptolemy]

Luckiest ever WDC - Schumacher 1994 - how he didn't get disqualified I don't undertsand.

Jemstride - I'm not so sure Kimi is "unlucky" if the car doesn't break he drives in to someone else - not sure that's down to luck - see what next year and a red car brings him.

[.Dan]

Ptolemy, on Oct 19 2006, 05:03 PM, said:

Luckiest ever WDC - Schumacher 1994 - how he didn't get disqualified I don't undertsand.

Yes I know,but I do believe reading that Williams didn't press charges because with the deaths of Senna and Ratzenburger they didn't want more trouble.Also apparently even if MS didn't hit Hill he would've retired after the impact with the wall,so perhaps Hill should have been more patient,well thats what the critics say,I disagree!

My luckiest champ would also be Schumacher 1994,so unfair on Damon Hill.

[Ptolemy]

It's also worth noting that during most of Schumacher's unprecedented domination of F1 he was lucky enough to no serious rival.  

For a good chunk of it his biggest threat was Barrichello, who wasn't allowed to be in front of the "greatest ever driver" by contractual obligations.

What a loss this great sportsman will be to F1 (by the way, as writing isn't the best media to convey it, I was being sarcastic).

[Sato]

Most of Schumachers WDC's, especially 94.

[Ptolemy]

Sato, on Oct 20 2006, 10:00 AM, said:

Most of Schumachers WDC's, especially 94.

Sato:  As you seem to be very fair minded with a clear understanding F1 (or at least one that is close to mine - which is more or less the same thing) why the Cheatmacher signature?

[Socrates]

F1 FANatic, on Oct 9 2006, 01:08 AM, said:

Ok, I was watching an F1 documentary and I found that James Hunt had the most amazing luck of any driver to catch Lauda. Lauda had his crach that year, and was 25 points ahead, Hunt needs 6 races to pull close. then Lauda comes back and refuses to race because of the horendis condisions. Had Lauda not had his crash Hunt would never have come that close. Thats why I say Hunt was the luckest driver to win a WDC

what is your take

Why, I would say all of them! Every last one of them had tremendous luck! It's a requirement, you see, for becoming a World Champion.

[Max Mosley]

But does luck exist?

[Ctrl300]

monza gorilla, on Oct 9 2006, 09:50 PM, said:

Yes, Hunt was lucky in some respects, but he was also in a position to capitalise on the situation. He also had some bad luck (British GP 76). He was a blindingly quick qualifier, and very fast in a race situation. We talk blithely about bringing a car home in a higher position than it deserved. Hunt won in a Hesketh! There may have been luck, but he was a worthy champion. More so than Keke Rosberg, for instance, or Damon Hill (not that either of them were undeserving - there are no undeserving WDCs), since he did not have the best car.

Hunt drove a three year old McLaren

Murray Walker, on Oct 23 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

But does luck exist?

See Hill 94

If anyone ever was lucky it must have been MS in 2002 and 2004. A restricted teammate coupled with hapless competition.

[monza gorilla]

Ctrl300, on Oct 23 2006, 09:04 AM, said:

Hunt drove a three year old McLaren

Yes, but I was referring to 1975. I should have been clearer.

[tifosi too!]

Ptolemy, on Oct 20 2006, 03:15 AM, said:

It's also worth noting that during most of Schumacher's unprecedented domination of F1 he was lucky enough to no serious rival.  

For a good chunk of it his biggest threat was Barrichello, who wasn't allowed to be in front of the "greatest ever driver" by contractual obligations.

What a loss this great sportsman will be to F1 (by the way, as writing isn't the best media to convey it, I was being sarcastic).

If MS wasn't as dominant, then everyone would talk about the enormous talents  the grid had these years  such as, after 96 (excluding AS,AP,NM he drove against before) DH,JV,MH,DC,HHF,JA,JPM,KR,FA,JT,RS,JB,NH and perhaps a few more who would have been a lot more succesful had he not being on the grid.Barrichello wasn't able to beat MS in case you haven't noticed and there is no known contractual obligation known to had been forcing him to stay behind MS unless you have any proof of that (and I mean real proof such as the actual term of the contact etc).If some people don't like MS is fine by me but please don't throw around random personal views and present them as facts.

Edited by tifosi too!, 23 October 2006 - 09:48 AM.

[kenneth]

tifosi too!, on Oct 23 2006, 11:47 AM, said:

If MS wasn't as dominant, then everyone would talk about the enormous talents  the grid had these years  such as, after 96 (excluding AS,AP,NM he drove against before) DH,JV,MH,DC,HHF,JA,JPM,KR,FA,JT,RS,JB,NH and perhaps a few more who would have been a lot more succesful had he not being on the grid.Barrichello wasn't able to beat MS in case you haven't noticed and there is no known contractual obligation known to had been forcing him to stay behind MS unless you have any proof of that (and I mean real proof such as the actual term of the contact etc).If some people don't like MS is fine by me but please don't throw around random personal views and present them as facts.

i agree in some poits with you ...he raced against all of this people ...yeahh but look at the whole picture in 94 he won it cos everybody knows how....the 95 ok he was good , then 96 against DH he lost it , again 97 against JV he lost it .... 98/99 he lost against MH , thern one of a suddenhe win the 2000 and here i will say he was good then after that 2001 till 2004 there where no one to compete against him ferrari where above all .....when the other wins they weren't above all maybe a bit there and then but not superior like ferrari ..

i'm not saying he wins cos of that but these are facts look now again 2005 FA wins against Mclaren but 2006 he wins against MS and ferari whjen ferrari in the last part were superior a bit so for me record no records

i will praise him for winning 1995/ 2000 only the others are Sh#t....

my opinion obvious....

[Wez]

Keke Rosberg!

[Socrates]

Murray Walker, on Oct 22 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

But does luck exist?

did sakon yamamoto finish a grand prix?

[Shane2]

Schumacher 94. If it wasn't for williams decision not to protest, theres no way he would have held onto that title

And you cannot call Alonso lucky because Kimi had car failures. At the end of the Day Fernando was consistant, and the team built a better and more reliable car. That isn't luck

[Quiet One]

This whole discussion reminds me of an expression a professor I had in college loved to utter: "Hitler lost the war because winter trapped his troops in Russia. If it were not because of 'General Winter', the Soviet Union would have been thoroughly defeated". Well, that meant ignoring the 20+ millions of deaths the soviet paid to win the eastern front. Luck plays an important role, no matter who do you support, you will all recall some time when your favorite driver won/lost a race because of sheer luck. But that cannot divert you from the truth, and truth is: no amount of luck can make you a WDC without the talent and the effort.
I do not think any amount of luck would have made a champion that year of Divina Galica! (does anybody  remember her?)

[Kay]

I think when you refer to luck, you have to remember the opposite, where was the driver unlucky?

People tend to jump on drivers too quickly for saying they had a lucky win, or someone retiring was lucky for them. If you look back in their career, you'll usually find a few times when they were miserably unlucky, so most of the times, it balances out.

[Shane2]

Yep thats a fair point. Alonso had a crash in Monaco 2004 when he could have won Scuhmacher had the stall on the grid, and tire failure in Japan 98, Hakkinen was injured in a horrible accident... Luck is something that comes and goes in most forms of sport

[monza gorilla]

Quiet One, on Nov 5 2006, 06:00 PM, said:

I do not think any amount of luck would have made a champion that year of Divina Galica! (does anybody remember her?)

I remember! And Desiree Wilson, but she did have talent.