Diffuser Saga Over Then!!!!

[Kay 0]

Call me a delusional old man...

We never had you down as a strange fantasist.

[5P33D3V1L 0]

well, the season is over pretty much. its going to be another 04. But I guess what id does do is allow the other teams an extra year for the 2010 car. If I were Ferrari I would just pull out now, not waist the money on 09 and come back in 2010. Its too expensive to redevelop the whole back end and if they make it to the top Brawn will already have too big a lead. i say Ferrari, Renault, BMW and Merc should just pull out save the money used for running the car and come back in 2010

Thats just silly.

Things dont go your way and your not clever enough to have an innovating car design so you quit a season. Thats a pathetic mentality. Force India might as well not bother either, Nor should Red Bull or Toro Rosso.

It's only been 2 races. And Toyota, Williams and even Red Bull are close enough to challenge Button easily. We dont know how reliable that Brawn is yet and Ferrari and BMW are strong enough teams who can turn things around very quickly.

[Quiet One 15]

I agree.

In the past 35 years only 3 WCCs went to teams different from Macca, Ferrari or Williams: one to Benetton Renault and trhe other two to Renault ( )

So, as long as the diffusers are actually legal, good for the small teams, you finally outsmarted the big ones.

The downside is just how much money again goes to waste. Not only in wasted developments, but also in the legions of incompetent lawyers they probably hired to make these rules only to watch them rendered useless before the season even started.

[F1 FANatic 1]

Thats just silly.

Things dont go your way and your not clever enough to have an innovating car design so you quit a season. Thats a pathetic mentality. Force India might as well not bother either, Nor should Red Bull or Toro Rosso.

It's only been 2 races. And Toyota, Williams and even Red Bull are close enough to challenge Button easily. We dont know how reliable that Brawn is yet and Ferrari and BMW are strong enough teams who can turn things around very quickly.

If the team drops out and does not race then it is also not bound by the testing limit. I could build an F1 car in my back yeard and test it all I wanted because I'm not on the grid, same with any team. A team drops out not, saves the money and can drive 500k testing miles over the year instead, its exactly what Honda did when they were at the back so why can't another team do it, nobody complained that they just called it quits after 5 races.

[maure 1]

well, the season is over pretty much. its going to be another 04. But I guess what id does do is allow the other teams an extra year for the 2010 car. If I were Ferrari I would just pull out now, not waist the money on 09 and come back in 2010. Its too expensive to redevelop the whole back end and if they make it to the top Brawn will already have too big a lead. i say Ferrari, Renault, BMW and Merc should just pull out save the money used for running the car and come back in 2010

If the team drops out and does not race then it is also not bound by the testing limit. I could build an F1 car in my back yeard and test it all I wanted because I'm not on the grid, same with any team. A team drops out not, saves the money and can drive 500k testing miles over the year instead, its exactly what Honda did when they were at the back so why can't another team do it, nobody complained that they just called it quits after 5 races.

And more so since their "retirement" has been forced on them.

After all, their role so far this season has been to parade around padding up the field.

Very sound twist, my fellow poster, very sound. Gotta wonder what it would do to FIA if just one of the big teams skipped ahead to next season... and I say FIA because F1 has been fcked with so much that I don't think most people would be able to tell the difference.

... hopefully the overtaking etc doesn't suffer with them all having this type of aero stuff at the back.

It suffers (increased turbulence)... aside from the fact that some teams have been given such an enormous startup lead that overtaking is not even a hypothetical consideration.

Well, it's great news for Brawn and whoever will make some real money with that team, this will be enought to keep them afloat into next year. It's good and deserved for Toyota and Williams that been struggling all these years.

Funny.

And, imho, it is good for Renault, BMW, Macca and Ferrari who now will have to prove how great they are. I am hoping Renault will make me proud! These can be "their finest hour" Is always more special to watch them turn luck in their favor than watch them cruising to victory.

Yep. Mud is character building stuff.

[yurp 0]

well, the season is over pretty much. its going to be another 04. But I guess what id does do is allow the other teams an extra year for the 2010 car. If I were Ferrari I would just pull out now, not waist the money on 09 and come back in 2010. Its too expensive to redevelop the whole back end and if they make it to the top Brawn will already have too big a lead. i say Ferrari, Renault, BMW and Merc should just pull out save the money used for running the car and come back in 2010

I have no doubt that you'll be correct for a few teams.

they will indeed drop off and start work on next year's car.

every year this happens with a few minor teams.

the only difference is that this year ferrari might be amongst those teams.

BUT

to me that's no great loss.

why should I care more about ferrari than say honda last year?

every year some teams will drop off early because they haven't built a competitive car. at the moment ferrari's car isn't even competitive with other non-diffuser cars, so this isn't just a diffuser issue for them. their car's just not that good - probably a result of fighting to the very end of last year.

as long as the racing amongst the top teams this season is good, I don't mind ferrari not being involved - I don't even mind who those teams are.

I think this season will shape up as a battle between brawn/toyota/redbull/mclaren - which to me is just as good as ferrari/mclaren/bmw (last year).

incidently, I also think it'll do F1 a whole lot of good.

just my opinion.

[yurp 0]

also - just think:

what if mclaren and ferrari had come out with these diffusers and the other teams hadn't?

it would have been the status quo all over again and we wouldn't have even batted an eyelid.

we would have just said - "no surprise there, mclaren and ferrari have all the money and know how so they've got a better car as usual."

you can bet there wouldn't have even been a protest or court case either.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Finally, Innovation's actually allowed to happen.

omg now we have a penis clown

[Insider 0]

I purposely knew you were quiet and would respond if the diffuser saga was decared legal. Now how did I know that??

I have no idea but I am sure you are going to tell me. I did have complete confidence in Brawn's ability to innovate without contravening the rules and the endless whining from other forum members and teams alike was extremely boring. The Big Four all missed a trick - period. On the other hand, that Toyota have seen fit to build what can only be described as an identical copy of the BGP design is shameful. I guess 2009 is s##t or bust for them though and anything goes. Williams, on the other hand are leaking sponsors and probably deserve any help they can get. At least their diffuser is significantly different enough to the BGP001 to ward off claims of 'cribbing'. For me, though he continues to make elementary mistakes, here and there, Jenson Button deserves a unanimous round of applause, [and in some quarters of this forum, an apology] for making the almost impossible shift from serial loser, [staring a premature retirement in the face], to a winner, with the world at his feet; a metamorphosis that has been virtually seamless and has taken little more than a heartbeat to achieve. That is the true mark of a Champion.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I have no idea but I am sure you are going to tell me. I did have complete confidence in Brawn's ability to innovate without contravening the rules and the endless whining from other forum members and teams alike was extremely boring. The Big Four all missed a trick - period. On the other hand, that Toyota have seen fit to build what can only be described as an identical copy of the BGP design is shameful. I guess 2009 is s##t or bust for them though and anything goes. Williams, on the other hand are leaking sponsors and probably deserve any help they can get. At least their diffuser is significantly different enough to the BGP001 to ward off claims of 'cribbing'. For me, though he continues to make elementary mistakes, here and there, Jenson Button deserves a unanimous round of applause, [and in some quarters of this forum, an apology] for making the almost impossible shift from serial loser, [staring a premature retirement in the face], to a winner, with the world at his feet; a metamorphosis that has been virtually seamless and has taken little more than a heartbeat to achieve. That is the true mark of a Champion.

There's absolutely no doubt about it Insider, I was merely making a joke as to Graham's explanation to the referral of you display name. As for the bold part, I agree 100%, because there were so many doubting his abilities and now he's proving his mettle, proving what we believed for so many years - thats he is definately champion material!!!

[monza gorilla 1]

If the team drops out and does not race then it is also not bound by the testing limit. I could build an F1 car in my back yeard and test it all I wanted because I'm not on the grid, same with any team. A team drops out not, saves the money and can drive 500k testing miles over the year instead, its exactly what Honda did when they were at the back so why can't another team do it, nobody complained that they just called it quits after 5 races.

That's a mighty big back yard you've got there.

And a big tool kit.

[parabs 0]

And FIA takes a step closer to the edge of the cliff...

It's telling the amount of neurosis one can see in the forums. So many changes to changes on top of changes that were not meant to be changes but that were declared legitimate changes after all the changes... sums up the F1 rule book.

So, what's legal now and what's not?

Since, for example, the dimensions of the now legal legal (double necessity) diffusers are outside of the rulebook as written, what are the dimensions that the others teams are to use? Is a diffuser of any size now legal? Or, perhaps, does BGP determine now what's legal?

It will be interesting to see what other teams come up with and what "logic" does FIA use to keep things within of their intentions regarding the outcome of the season...

In any case, much fun to be had with the options now open to all.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73083

The regulations seem quite cut and dry, so perhaps some research is in order before you c#ckoff without suitable knowledge on the topic you feel you must discuss.

[maure 1]

I have no idea but I am sure you are going to tell me. I did have complete confidence in Brawn's ability to innovate without contravening the rules and the endless whining from other forum members and teams alike was extremely boring. The Big Four all missed a trick - period. On the other hand, that Toyota have seen fit to build what can only be described as an identical copy of the BGP design is shameful. I guess 2009 is s##t or bust for them though and anything goes. Williams, on the other hand are leaking sponsors and probably deserve any help they can get. At least their diffuser is significantly different enough to the BGP001 to ward off claims of 'cribbing'. For me, though he continues to make elementary mistakes, here and there, Jenson Button deserves a unanimous round of applause, [and in some quarters of this forum, an apology] for making the almost impossible shift from serial loser, [staring a premature retirement in the face], to a winner, with the world at his feet; a metamorphosis that has been virtually seamless and has taken little more than a heartbeat to achieve. That is the true mark of a Champion.

Identical copy... well, well, one has to wonder how that came about...

[monza gorilla 1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73083

The regulations seem quite cut and dry, so perhaps some research is in order before you c#ckoff without suitable knowledge on the topic you feel you must discuss.

Welcome to the forum. Nicely acidic first post. Keep up the good work.

[maure 1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73083

The regulations seem quite cut and dry, so perhaps some research is in order before you c#ckoff without suitable knowledge on the topic you feel you must discuss.

When someone comes out of the blue going off...

Anyway, you cite an article that you haven't read. Consider your "cut and dry" regulations against this passage from the article:

This is an ambiguous rule which appears to allow more than one surface to exist in this area... which, essentially, allows defying the dimensions as stated.

But, of course, the best of the article is the worst for you.

There are two interpretations of the regulations being exploited with these diffusers... so that "cut and dry" is open to interpretation?

Interestingly, many posters have already said what I've said, that is, that dimensions had been defied. That you complain to me alone is amusing.

Nonetheless, and of course, welcome to the forum. You will find many fanatics of your ilk ready to worship the lastest fad with fists and feet. Considering its source and intent (the fad, I mean), I expect there will be as much violence about it as with previous ones... in fact, the assault on Toyota has already started. Down with those shameful Japanese. And what will not be done to Brazilians if RB smarts up...

[yurp 0]

I get the impression parabs is not a new new member?

any how - that article is actually pretty handy - at least in determining exactly how badly the FIA have drawn up their rules .

if the article is all correct then I don't think the diffuser 3 have done anything wrong really.

if thems the rules and they haven't broken them, then surely they're legal no?

[Max Mosley 2]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73083

The regulations seem quite cut and dry, so perhaps some research is in order before you c#ckoff without suitable knowledge on the topic you feel you must discuss.

Welcome mate. Very interesting article. I think it makes a strong case for the legality of the new diffusers.

[Insider 0]

Identical copy... well, well, one has to wonder how that came about...

I was merely underlining how little discernible difference there appears to be between the two designs, you old loghead!

[monza gorilla 1]

any how - that article is actually pretty handy - at least in determining exactly how badly the FIA have drawn up their rules .

if the article is all correct then I don't think the diffuser 3 have done anything wrong really.

if thems the rules and they haven't broken them, then surely they're legal no?

Yup. Yup. And thrice yup.

[HandyNZL 1]

I have no idea but I am sure you are going to tell me. I did have complete confidence in Brawn's ability to innovate without contravening the rules and the endless whining from other forum members and teams alike was extremely boring. The Big Four all missed a trick - period. On the other hand, that Toyota have seen fit to build what can only be described as an identical copy of the BGP design is shameful. I guess 2009 is s##t or bust for them though and anything goes. Williams, on the other hand are leaking sponsors and probably deserve any help they can get. At least their diffuser is significantly different enough to the BGP001 to ward off claims of 'cribbing'. For me, though he continues to make elementary mistakes, here and there, Jenson Button deserves a unanimous round of applause, [and in some quarters of this forum, an apology] for making the almost impossible shift from serial loser, [staring a premature retirement in the face], to a winner, with the world at his feet; a metamorphosis that has been virtually seamless and has taken little more than a heartbeat to achieve. That is the true mark of a Champion.

Wasn't Toyota on track first with the diffuser, long before Brawns car broke cover? If this is the case, how exactly did Toyota copy Brawn? Is it not more likely that both design teams came up with essentially the same answer to a set of regulations? And whom then copied whom to put four wheels on the car?

[Insider 0]

Welcome mate. Very interesting article. I think it makes a strong case for the legality of the new diffusers.

I believe there was always a strong case for the controversial diffusers. Otherwise, the stewards would have thrown them out in Melly. Brawn and Co obviously did homework others appeared to have ignored.

[monza gorilla 1]

I was merely underlining how little discernible difference there appears to be between the two designs, you old loghead!

I think the underside of the BGP diffuser is more aesthetically pleasing. If it looks right, it is right, as they say. The Toyota version appears to be made out of Lego. Anyway, it's all dirty air under the diffuser now. Let's go racing.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73083

The regulations seem quite cut and dry, so perhaps some research is in order before you c#ckoff without suitable knowledge on the topic you feel you must discuss.

whoa, look at this new clown!

[Insider 0]

There's absolutely no doubt about it Insider, I was merely making a joke as to Graham's explanation to the referral of you display name. As for the bold part, I agree 100%, because there were so many doubting his abilities and now he's proving his mettle, proving what we believed for so many years - thats he is definately champion material!!!

I was aware of the jocular nature of your remarks. That why I love you all so much.

[Insider 0]

I think the underside of the BGP diffuser is more aesthetically pleasing. If it looks right, it is right, as they say. The Toyota version appears to be made out of Lego. Anyway, it's all dirty air under the diffuser now. Let's go racing.

Couldn't agree more.