Not A Good Sign For JV Fans.....

[nojvnof1 0]

How? I don't consider myself to be a Schuian, i am prepared to accept the notion that he's not the best.........

That reference was nothing more than a playful jibe, lighten up.

I also don't consider myself to be a JVian. I am more than prepared to admit JV has his flaws just as all other racers do. When have I ever said that JV is the best?

All i'm saying is that i find it a bit strange that you put such faith in a guy who has factually been underperforming for some time now. F1 is about speed and nothing else. Why do you support a driver who is not as gifted as another? I don't mean that flippantly, i am genuinely interested to know why you rate him so highly.

So we can only support drivers who are winning all the time then? JV was a winner, admittedly it's been a long time, but we don't have to follow who ever is winning at the time, that's what bandwagon fans are for. If we were to follow the logic of following the most gifted driver, wouldn't we all be M$ fans?

Whilst JV has been underperforming, it's not as if he has had the machinery to go out and win races or titles. Sure he was in a class of the field Williams when he won, but so has Michael been in the class of the field Ferrari from 2000-2004 (2003 excepted). Does that mean the title means less because it was in the best car? No way.

JV has won the Indy 500, CART title, and F1 WDC. Should he go and win Le Mans he'd be the only driver to ever win this quartet. JV is a winner, he just wasted his prime at BAR (his decision, I'm not blaming anyone for it). It's a shame as he had his best year (2000) in that car yet you had to be a die hard fan of the sport or JV to notice. Thankfully the Italian F1 fans did by voting him driver of the year for that year. Whilst I grant it that JV has been far from impressive on most occasions, that shouldn't mean his previous achivements go uncredited.

Supporting a driver isn't all about their on track abilities, some go for drivers from their respective country, some like their personalities off track (JV is seen as rebel in a corporate world who speaks his mind freely irrespective of the consequences, a big attraction to all his fans).

JV's fans are one of the most loyal bunch out there. I can understand your bemusement that someone who hasn't won anything of late having such a large, diverse and loyal fanbase, but you don't just drop your driver after some bad seasons. It's at the bad times when you need to increase your loyalty (not to the point of delusion and the like) and support your driver or team. I'll admit that some are more outrageous in their evaluations and expectations, but every driver has those types of fans.

I support JV as I know how good he was, and could have been had he not gone to BAR, but with hindsight, everyone is an expert. Now, we're just enjoying seeing JV race as we know he is one to give his all for each lap of each session and enjoys racing for racing's sake. You don't just ditch your team/driver half way, or nearing the end of their career, that shows no loyalty, which is weak I believe.

Whilst you might find it strange that JV has fans (shock, horror!!), it could just as equally be asked why you follow a driver with questionable driving ethics. Are you a just a member of the Schumi band wagon or is there another reason you support Michael? For the record, I'm not saying you specifically are a member of the band wagon, far from it, but it's just as easy to question the allegiance to one driver as it is for another.

[monza gorilla 1]

Good post, mate.

[funkejay 0]

yup, a very good post......

[YHR 0]

nojvnof1

Excellent post, there is nothing I would add to explain why I am a fan of JV.

I am a big JV fan, but I certainly have never claimed he is going to win driving a Sauber. People who claim I make comments about JV winning in fact are telling absolute untruths. You can check every post I have ever written and no where do I make the claim that JV is currently the best driver or has a chance of ever winning the WDC again.

As a matter of fact I am on record of saying he is still in the top ten, which is as optiimistic as I have got.

There are more then a few examples in this thread of people who are incapable of friendly banter.

[narain fan 0]

nojvnof1

Excellent post, there is nothing I would add to explain why I am a fan of JV.

I am a big JV fan, but I certainly have never claimed he is going to win driving a Sauber. People who claim I make comments about JV winning in fact are telling absolute untruths. You can check every post I have ever written and no where do I make the claim that JV is currently the best driver or has a chance of ever winning the WDC again.

As a matter of fact I am on record of saying he is still in the top ten, which is as optiimistic as I have got.

There are more then a few examples in this thread of people who are incapable of friendly banter.

i remember, a month ago ,when i said that JV setting a 1:18 :7 time on low fuel is not something positive,your reply was very long,contradicting yourself at many places,only showing your insecurity and lack of faith in him

the reply was so ridiculously wrong that i did not bother replying to it then...

[Null 0]

ok then YHR, I will take my comment back - I will settle with "YHR seems to believe JV is some kind of demigod"

[narain fan 0]

ok then YHR, I will take my comment back - I will settle with "YHR seems to believe JV is some kind of demigod"

for many ,he is

[YHR 0]

i remember, a month ago ,when i said that JV setting a 1:18 :7 time on low fuel is not something positive,your reply was very long,contradicting yourself at many places,only showing your insecurity and lack of faith in him

the reply was so ridiculously wrong that i did not bother replying to it then...

You are absolutely wrong in that regard. Must have me mistaken for someone else. I even questioned nojvnof1 for his doubting that JV would have a set with BMW this year. I clearly stated long before anyone else did that JV would be drivng for BMW in 2006.

Stating the fact that he might of been low on fuel during the test is hardly contradicting or showing a lack of faith. It is just stating the reality of the test.

Pull up my reply and quote from it to prove your point. If you can't do that then don't bother making up claims about what I said or didn't say.

[YHR 0]

ok then YHR, I will take my comment back - I will settle with "YHR seems to believe JV is some kind of demigod"

Wrong again

How about, "YHR seems to really stand behind his countryman and believes the the former WDC has dusted off the cobwebs and is capable of proving he has enough skill left in him to handle the challenge from NH.

To hear the comments from some of you, a person would of thought I said JV was going to win the world championship or something. Sheeesh what a group.

All I said was the he will out perform NH.

[YHR 0]

So much ammo, not enough time.....

How on earth have you decided that JV beating NH is the most likely outcome? Other than your faith in JV what criteria are you working to? The discussion had nothing to do with Kimi, Fernando or Michael, why do you bring them up? JV in my opinion is a former world champion who was such because he had the best car at the time. He has since been outperformed by relative nobody's. That is not indicative of a world class driver. Of course he should retire if Nick beats him, where on earth would his F1 career go from there?

All i'm saying is that i find it a bit strange that you put such faith in a guy who has factually been underperforming for some time now. F1 is about speed and nothing else. Why do you support a driver who is not as gifted as another? I don't mean that flippantly, i am genuinely interested to know why you rate him so highly.

How? I don't consider myself to be a Schuian, i am prepared to accept the notion that he's not the best.........

Other than your faith in JV what criteria are you working to?

On the second page of this thread I explained why JV would have the upperhand.

The discussion had nothing to do with Kimi, Fernando or Michael, why do you bring them up?

I brought them up as examples of drivers I think are better then JV. Had I made claims that JV would best them then I might agree with you about my claim being outlandish.

To recap. I stand behind my comments that JV will outperform NH because of his finesse and skill getting the most out of the lower torque V8 . If you have a problem with that, I am sorry. I find then when I make bold claims, I get all kinds of people jumping all over me, but when those bold claims become fact these same people slither under a rock.

Last year I said Sauber would qualify in front of Ferrari. Man did I get blasted for that. When a Sauber did in fact out qualify a Ferrari more then once, these same people never said a word. There are couple of people in this thread, you included, who will be eating crow by the end of next season. I'll be able to come on here and say hmmmmmm, imagine that, JV had better result then NH, go figure, who would have thought.

The absolute great thing about this is that the truth will play out, and we will know who is talking out of their a## and who isn't

[nojvnof1 0]

thank you monza, funkejay and YHR.

[narain fan 0]

You are absolutely wrong in that regard. Must have me mistaken for someone else. I even questioned nojvnof1 for his doubting that JV would have a set with BMW this year. I clearly stated long before anyone else did that JV would be drivng for BMW in 2006.

Stating the fact that he might of been low on fuel during the test is hardly contradicting or showing a lack of faith. It is just stating the reality of the test.**

Pull up my reply and quote from it to prove your point. If you can't do that then don't bother making up claims about what I said or didn't say.

**hello,i was the one stating that Jv was running on fumes,you were thumping your chest and claiming that ,regardless of the situation Jv's time is Great(another contradiction) so to state that you were claiming Jv was running low on fuel is removed from the truth

Think twice before challenging the authenticity of my claim,dont think that you can escape by questioning others' credibility coz the quote is old and it is difficult for someone to dig them out,(anyway i wont mistake someone else's quote as being yours ,coz there are few Jvians ,so no problem remembering them ),IF THAT IS NOT THE CASE,then it is even more worrisome coz you dont seem to remember what you have said while passionately defending him. i have no problems in you respecting (being a fan) of Jv,but to be hypersensitive and react at the very instance JV's name is discussed and post very long replies is churlish sometimes times and ludicrous at others

OMG!jv'ians...,i tell u....

yesterday only ten men ran...4 of them midland ,remaining testers....... apart from tpyota

and he was on fumes ..and u feel he is on top of his game

Duh

Regardless of who was on the track his lap time was very good compared to the others who have been running V8's over the entire test period

You would have to work for the British F1 press to come to the conclusion you did with respects to our comments

from where did the british press and me come up in a discussion on jv,so you have a go at me shows you are running out of points to defend him

It is a real stretch to pull "JV is at the top of his game" out of the remarks posted. Simply we were pleased with his performance, and that of the BMW Sauber when compared to all the other teams that have run over this test period.

I have a question for you. Why wouldn't JV be at the top of his game? This is F1. If JV is not driving at the top of his game, what the hell is he still doing in F1.

"question:what the hell is he still doing in F1"

answer two letters "CP"

you first raise a rhetorical question ,"why wouldnt he be at the top of his game,implying ,he is at the top of his game,then contradict yourself claiming

The top of his game is what we expect this year. This is a no excuse year for JV, and if he still has it, then he needs to get the most out of the BMW every time out on the track. JV fans who have watched JV over the years believe he is{[(note,present tense)]} a brilliant driver. For this reason we have searched for excuses to cover his less then spectacular return. This year there are no excuses. He either still has it or his skill level has deteriorated to that of a midpack driver, and should be happy with any ride he can secure after 2006. I expect him to match or better NH at every outing. If he does that then he still deserves to be in F1. If he doesn't then JV should seek another role in F1.

if he "is "brilliant,why was there a need for you to search for excuses

He won the confidence of the engineers last year, who went to bat for him this year. He is starting the year off knowing that his people believe in him. He either does well or he does not based on his skills as a driver.

People who slagged him for his 3 rides with Renault don't understand the sport very well and their criticism is easy to ignore. The fact that concerns me is that he wasn't kicking FM a## at the end of last year. Either FM is a lot better then the press give him credit for, or JV just hasn't got it any more. Because FM is now with Ferrari, my hope is that he is indeed a rising star. NH is also deemed to be a rising star. If the old man can best them (NH, FM) or keep pace with them, then he does in fact still possess the skills that should allow him to continue driving in this sport.

CONTRARY TO YOUR REPEATED CLAIMS, at no point in the 05 season was he kicking MASSA'S a#*

Realistically that is exactly the same thing BMW thinks as well, and is one reason they have not given JV's 2007 seat away. If he performs then the seat is his. If he doesn't, then look to him being replaced. To me that is fair, and I will be the first to say it has been fun while it lasted. On the other hand if JV beats his team-mate and is still shown the door by BMW, then I will also be the first to poop all over the BMW moniker.

After thought. If they replaced JV with FA, KR, MS(he is a German legend after all) then the moniker would still have a shine on it, as I could hardly fault them for those choices.

http://www.totalf1.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5030

FULL REPLY (in one piece )

Duh

Regardless of who was on the track his lap time was very good compared to the others who have been running V8's over the entire test period.

You would have to work for the British F1 press to come to the conclusion you did with respects to our comments. It is a real stretch to pull "JV is at the top of his game" out of the remarks posted. Simply we were pleased with his performance, and that of the BMW Sauber when compared to all the other teams that have run over this test period.

I have a question for you. Why wouldn't JV be at the top of his game? This is F1. If JV is not driving at the top of his game, what the hell is he still doing in F1. The top of his game is what we expect this year. This is a no excuse year for JV, and if he still has it, then he needs to get the most out of the BMW every time out on the track. JV fans who have watched JV over the years believe he is a brilliant driver. For this reason we have searched for excuses to cover his less then spectacular return. This year there are no excuses. He either still has it or his skill level has deteriorated to that of a midpack driver, and should be happy with any ride he can secure after 2006. I expect him to match or better NH at every outing. If he does that then he still deserves to be in F1. If he doesn't then JV should seek another role in F1.

He won the confidence of the engineers last year, who went to bat for him this year. He is starting the year off knowing that his people believe in him. He either does well or he does not based on his skills as a driver.

People who slagged him for his 3 rides with Renault don't understand the sport very well and their criticism is easy to ignore. The fact that concerns me is that he wasn't kicking FM a## at the end of last year. Either FM is a lot better then the press give him credit for, or JV just hasn't got it any more. Because FM is now with Ferrari, my hope is that he is indeed a rising star. NH is also deemed to be a rising star. If the old man can best them (NH, FM) or keep pace with them, then he does in fact still possess the skills that should allow him to continue driving in this sport.

Realistically that is exactly the same thing BMW thinks as well, and is one reason they have not given JV's 2007 seat away. If he performs then the seat is his. If he doesn't, then look to him being replaced. To me that is fair, and I will be the first to say it has been fun while it lasted. On the other hand if JV beats his team-mate and is still shown the door by BMW, then I will also be the first to poop all over the BMW moniker.

After thought. If they replaced JV with FA, KR, MS(he is a German legend after all) then the moniker would still have a shine on it, as I could hardly fault them for those choices.

[nojvnof1 0]

Regardless of who was on the track his lap time was very good compared to the others who have been running V8's over the entire test period

Is this the quote from YHR which is causing all the fuss? What exactly is the problem with it? Fact of the matter is that over the whole 6 day period of the test, JV set the second fastest V8 time of the whole test, and had the fastest lap for the whole test bar for Michael's final two laps of the test on the sixth and final day. Yes it was on low fuel, just as Nick's fastest lap this past Wednesday was and I explained that situation in the testing thread.

[narain fan 0]

Is this the quote from YHR which is causing all the fuss? What exactly is the problem with it? Fact of the matter is that over the whole 6 day period of the test, JV set the second fastest V8 time of the whole test, and had the fastest lap for the whole test bar for Michael's final two laps of the test on the sixth and final day. Yes it was on low fuel, just as Nick's fastest lap this past Wednesday was and I explained that situation in the testing thread.

it is not the only thing ,please read the entire post

[dribbler 6]

That reference was nothing more than a playful jibe, lighten up.

I also don't consider myself to be a JVian. I am more than prepared to admit JV has his flaws just as all other racers do. When have I ever said that JV is the best?

So we can only support drivers who are winning all the time then? JV was a winner, admittedly it's been a long time, but we don't have to follow who ever is winning at the time, that's what bandwagon fans are for. If we were to follow the logic of following the most gifted driver, wouldn't we all be M$ fans?

Whilst JV has been underperforming, it's not as if he has had the machinery to go out and win races or titles. Sure he was in a class of the field Williams when he won, but so has Michael been in the class of the field Ferrari from 2000-2004 (2003 excepted). Does that mean the title means less because it was in the best car? No way.

JV has won the Indy 500, CART title, and F1 WDC. Should he go and win Le Mans he'd be the only driver to ever win this quartet. JV is a winner, he just wasted his prime at BAR (his decision, I'm not blaming anyone for it). It's a shame as he had his best year (2000) in that car yet you had to be a die hard fan of the sport or JV to notice. Thankfully the Italian F1 fans did by voting him driver of the year for that year. Whilst I grant it that JV has been far from impressive on most occasions, that shouldn't mean his previous achivements go uncredited.

Supporting a driver isn't all about their on track abilities, some go for drivers from their respective country, some like their personalities off track (JV is seen as rebel in a corporate world who speaks his mind freely irrespective of the consequences, a big attraction to all his fans).

JV's fans are one of the most loyal bunch out there. I can understand your bemusement that someone who hasn't won anything of late having such a large, diverse and loyal fanbase, but you don't just drop your driver after some bad seasons. It's at the bad times when you need to increase your loyalty (not to the point of delusion and the like) and support your driver or team. I'll admit that some are more outrageous in their evaluations and expectations, but every driver has those types of fans.

I support JV as I know how good he was, and could have been had he not gone to BAR, but with hindsight, everyone is an expert. Now, we're just enjoying seeing JV race as we know he is one to give his all for each lap of each session and enjoys racing for racing's sake. You don't just ditch your team/driver half way, or nearing the end of their career, that shows no loyalty, which is weak I believe.

Whilst you might find it strange that JV has fans (shock, horror!!), it could just as equally be asked why you follow a driver with questionable driving ethics. Are you a just a member of the Schumi band wagon or is there another reason you support Michael? For the record, I'm not saying you specifically are a member of the band wagon, far from it, but it's just as easy to question the allegiance to one driver as it is for another.

Ah, i feel we are getting somewhere. Yes, that was a very good post and i thank you for taking the time to explain to me your stand on JV.

I think that i have too quick to judge you as i have only read comments which i feel have thrown disrespect towards Michael. I don't find it strange atall that JV has fans, i respect his achievements. I for one still regard the move he put on Michael at Estoril '96 as one of the very best and ballsy overtaking moves of recent times. The fact that he planned to do it, pre race, shows savvy. Head thought JV was mad when he told him he wanted the car set up for the move.

I hope that as time goes on, i will be able to demonstrate that i am a true Formula One fan for the right reasons. I quite understand that some get annoyed with MS fans who band wagon. If you know nothing about a sport, it's easiest to support the person who is doing the best, it makes you look better.

I have followed Michaels career from the start. I must admit that i didn't become a true devotee until the '95 season when, for me, he truely came of age and demonstrated his champion credentials. Let's face it, '94 was all about Ayrton's awful death and THAT incident in Adelaide. In 1995 though, i thought Michael drove beautifully.

You made a very good point that not everyone supports a person just for their achievements in their given sport. I think that Michael is a role model for how to live one's life. He has a wife, beautiful children who he doesn't spoil and works hard. He is an ambassador for his sport, shows his feelings and has respect for others.

He has also made mistakes. He has intimidated and humiliated others and not accepted that he has been wrong. He has had the benefit of driving the best cars. He has been ruthless on and off the track. He has deliberately created an enviroment that is selfishly of benefit to him. He also paid an obscene amount of money.

But i love him. He does something very well most of the time in a sport that i love.

If we can both be objective about Jacques Villeneuve and Michael Schumacher, i think you and i can have some great debates.

[Max Mosley 2]

I think that Michael is a role model for how to live one's life. [...] He has intimidated and humiliated others and not accepted that he has been wrong. He has had the benefit of driving the best cars. He has been ruthless on and off the track. He has deliberately created an enviroment that is selfishly of benefit to him. He also paid an obscene amount of money.

Exactly. Thats why he's the best! We can all learn from that (I am deadly serious).

But i love him.

Lets not get carried away though!

There are more then a few examples in this thread of people who are incapable of friendly banter.

And I haven't even posted recently... I do know the feeling though, YHR!

ok then YHR, I will take my comment back - I will settle with "YHR seems to believe JV is some kind of demigod"

(Don't take it too seriously YHR - we just think sometimes you can be a little bit biased, no doubt we all are to some extent)

[YHR 0]

**hello,i was the one stating that Jv was running on fumes,you were thumping your chest and claiming that ,regardless of the situation Jv's time is Great(another contradiction) so to state that you were claiming Jv was running low on fuel is removed from the truth

Think twice before challenging the authenticity of my claim,dont think that you can escape by questioning others' credibility coz the quote is old and it is difficult for someone to dig them out,(anyway i wont mistake someone else's quote as being yours ,coz there are few Jvians ,so no problem remembering them ),IF THAT IS NOT THE CASE,then it is even more worrisome coz you dont seem to remember what you have said while passionately defending him. i have no problems in you respecting (being a fan) of Jv,but to be hypersensitive and react at the very instance JV's name is discussed and post very long replies is churlish sometimes times and ludicrous at others

from where did the british press and me come up in a discussion on jv,so you have a go at me shows you are running out of points to defend him

"question:what the hell is he still doing in F1"

answer two letters "CP"

you first raise a rhetorical question ,"why wouldnt he be at the top of his game,implying ,he is at the top of his game,then contradict yourself claiming if he "is "brilliant,why was there a need for you to search for excuses

CONTRARY TO YOUR REPEATED CLAIMS, at no point in the 05 season was he kicking MASSA'S a#*

http://www.totalf1.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5030

FULL REPLY (in one piece )

Original quote causing Nairian to get his shorts in a knot, which I might add was to a response of one of his messages.

Duh

Regardless of who was on the track his lap time was very good compared to the others who have been running V8's over the entire test period.

You would have to work for the British F1 press to come to the conclusion you did with respects to our comments. It is a real stretch to pull "JV is at the top of his game" out of the remarks posted. Simply we were pleased with his performance, and that of the BMW Sauber when compared to all the other teams that have run over this test period.

I have a question for you. Why wouldn't JV be at the top of his game? This is F1. If JV is not driving at the top of his game, what the hell is he still doing in F1. The top of his game is what we expect this year. This is a no excuse year for JV, and if he still has it, then he needs to get the most out of the BMW every time out on the track. JV fans who have watched JV over the years believe he is a brilliant driver. For this reason we have searched for excuses to cover his less then spectacular return. This year there are no excuses. He either still has it or his skill level has deteriorated to that of a midpack driver, and should be happy with any ride he can secure after 2006. I expect him to match or better NH at every outing. If he does that then he still deserves to be in F1. If he doesn't then JV should seek another role in F1.

He won the confidence of the engineers last year, who went to bat for him this year. He is starting the year off knowing that his people believe in him. He either does well or he does not based on his skills as a driver.

People who slagged him for his 3 rides with Renault don't understand the sport very well and their criticism is easy to ignore. The fact that concerns me is that he wasn't kicking FM a## at the end of last year. Either FM is a lot better then the press give him credit for, or JV just hasn't got it any more. Because FM is now with Ferrari, my hope is that he is indeed a rising star. NH is also deemed to be a rising star. If the old man can best them (NH, FM) or keep pace with them, then he does in fact still possess the skills that should allow him to continue driving in this sport.

Realistically that is exactly the same thing BMW thinks as well, and is one reason they have not given JV's 2007 seat away. If he performs then the seat is his. If he doesn't, then look to him being replaced. To me that is fair, and I will be the first to say it has been fun while it lasted. On the other hand if JV beats his team-mate and is still shown the door by BMW, then I will also be the first to poop all over the BMW moniker.

After thought. If they replaced JV with FA, KR, MS(he is a German legend after all) then the moniker would still have a shine on it, as I could hardly fault them for those choices.

Thank you for posting my post .

I've bolded the words that run counter to your claims of what I said. I have also bolded the comments to show that I don't think JV is a God. As his fan I expect him to meet the expectations I have set out. If he doesn't then he should retire.

I really don't understand why you would have such, "issues" over what I wrote. Again I am very pleased you posted my quote, because it clearly demonstrates my position, and clearly shows my expectations of JV.

Your whole "Chest Pounding","JV is Great" lines are perfect examples of how you have mis-interpeted my comments and gone on the attack for things I never said or implied.

"If he is "brilliant,why was there a need for you to search for excuses"

A brilliant driver would be beating Massa, therefore if one was of the belief that JV still is a brilliant driver, does it not make sense then, that same person would be looking for excuses to explain the poor performance???? To not look for excuses would mean the driver is not brilliant, which is contrary to the belief of a JV fan. I think I stated that very clearly in the original post, but some how you must of missed that.

),IF THAT IS NOT THE CASE,then it is even more worrisome coz you dont seem to remember what you have said while passionately defending him.

That is a very reason I asked you to post my remark, before slagging me. How am I supposed to remember a response to you based on some vague rebuttal to a post of mine that is a month old. This is an internet racing forum, not the Queens Bench.

[Null 0]

mate, JV will not beat NH... trust me...

[YHR 0]

mate, JV will not beat NH... trust me...

That is the fun in this. No need to put your hands around my neck. You think NH will walk all over JV, and I think the opposite. Now we just have to sit back and watch what unfolds. As I mentioned in my old quote that Narian dragged out. This is it for JV. He either out performs NH in a spectacular way, or he is done in F1. So you can see why I am such a passionate believer, and why I have positioned myself as I have. If what I believe does not happen then JV is done.

[Max Mosley 2]

That is the fun in this. No need to put your hands around my neck. You think NH will walk all over JV, and I think the opposite. Now we just have to sit back and watch what unfolds. As I mentioned in my old quote that Narian dragged out. This is it for JV. He either out performs NH in a spectacular way, or he is done in F1. So you can see why I am such a passionate believer, and why I have positioned myself as I have. If what I believe does not happen then JV is done.

Thats bold of you!

[YHR 0]

Thats bold of you!

Well Murray I am a passionate JV fan, but the writing is on the wall for JV. The only way I will be able to write my JVian script for 2007 is if JV kicks NH a## so bad that other teams are forced to look again at a new JV.

[Null 0]

We shall see (obviously I will be right )

[5P33D3V1L 0]

I agree with YHR this year is JVs year to prove why hes a champion. Imo I think between JV and NH its going to be very close but Im a big JV fan and I really hope he whoops NH a## . JV has had one full year in F1 now after his break. So he is now back into the groove of things. But you have to think to yourself, why do you think Peter Sauber signed him for 2 years. One year to get used to things One year to pay Peter back.

All in all everyone should realise testing times dont show how good a driver is its how fast the car is for the coming season. You can only see which drivers are doing well after about 2-3 races. For example Fisichella in 05 was quick in testing and was lucky as Melbourne but the rest of the season he was no where.

But Ill be cheering for JV and Red Bull all the way this season!

[cavallino 2]

my my so many JVians against 1 Heidian

[dribbler 6]

Other than your faith in JV what criteria are you working to?

On the second page of this thread I explained why JV would have the upperhand.

The discussion had nothing to do with Kimi, Fernando or Michael, why do you bring them up?

I brought them up as examples of drivers I think are better then JV. Had I made claims that JV would best them then I might agree with you about my claim being outlandish.

To recap. I stand behind my comments that JV will outperform NH because of his finesse and skill getting the most out of the lower torque V8 . If you have a problem with that, I am sorry. I find then when I make bold claims, I get all kinds of people jumping all over me, but when those bold claims become fact these same people slither under a rock.

Last year I said Sauber would qualify in front of Ferrari. Man did I get blasted for that. When a Sauber did in fact out qualify a Ferrari more then once, these same people never said a word. There are couple of people in this thread, you included, who will be eating crow by the end of next season. I'll be able to come on here and say hmmmmmm, imagine that, JV had better result then NH, go figure, who would have thought.

The absolute great thing about this is that the truth will play out, and we will know who is talking out of their a## and who isn't

Seems like you are more intent on proving others wrong than having a sophisticated argument.

Do you have issues with your parents? I don't like to mock but i would take a particular pleasure if you prove to be wrong about NH vs JV.