monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 Ah, i feel we are getting somewhere. Yes, that was a very good post and i thank you for taking the time to explain to me your stand on JV. I think that i have too quick to judge you as i have only read comments which i feel have thrown disrespect towards Michael. I don't find it strange atall that JV has fans, i respect his achievements. I for one still regard the move he put on Michael at Estoril '96 as one of the very best and ballsy overtaking moves of recent times. The fact that he planned to do it, pre race, shows savvy. Head thought JV was mad when he told him he wanted the car set up for the move. I hope that as time goes on, i will be able to demonstrate that i am a true Formula One fan for the right reasons. I quite understand that some get annoyed with MS fans who band wagon. If you know nothing about a sport, it's easiest to support the person who is doing the best, it makes you look better. I have followed Michaels career from the start. I must admit that i didn't become a true devotee until the '95 season when, for me, he truely came of age and demonstrated his champion credentials. Let's face it, '94 was all about Ayrton's awful death and THAT incident in Adelaide. In 1995 though, i thought Michael drove beautifully. You made a very good point that not everyone supports a person just for their achievements in their given sport. I think that Michael is a role model for how to live one's life. He has a wife, beautiful children who he doesn't spoil and works hard. He is an ambassador for his sport, shows his feelings and has respect for others. He has also made mistakes. He has intimidated and humiliated others and not accepted that he has been wrong. He has had the benefit of driving the best cars. He has been ruthless on and off the track. He has deliberately created an enviroment that is selfishly of benefit to him. He also paid an obscene amount of money. But i love him. He does something very well most of the time in a sport that i love. If we can both be objective about Jacques Villeneuve and Michael Schumacher, i think you and i can have some great debates. Another good post in the same thread! Shock, horror!! Seriously, good post Dribbler. It makes me wish I actually followed a driver, for once, instead of the sport as a whole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 That is the fun in this. No need to put your hands around my neck. You think NH will walk all over JV, and I think the opposite. Now we just have to sit back and watch what unfolds. As I mentioned in my old quote that Narian dragged out. This is it for JV. He either out performs NH in a spectacular way, or he is done in F1. So you can see why I am such a passionate believer, and why I have positioned myself as I have. If what I believe does not happen then JV is done. He also has to change his nationality i.e. become German. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 Another good post in the same thread! Shock, horror!! Seriously, good post Dribbler. It makes me wish I actually followed a driver, for once, instead of the sport as a whole. I'm on a commission at the MS fan club, i can get you a good deal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 Sorry, but that would compromise my neutrality! It's just good to see well thought out argument instead of random blathering. Makes the place better to be around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 It's just good to see well thought out argument instead of random blathering. Makes the place better to be around. Indeed, although it'll be a cold day in hell before I root for JV................ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 He also has to change his nationality i.e. become German. you got me on that one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 you got me on that one Indeed I did. Its debatable whether he would be retained if he chose to become Austrian, he would be far safer with German nationality, and, I Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Null 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 my my so many JVians against 1 HeidianIt's terrible isn't it?! We need more Germans/people like me on this board!!!!!He also has to change his nationality i.e. become German. 4 in F1 now You'll see no complaints from me! Where's bajo these days? It's just good to see well thought out argument instead of random blathering. haha, I would contribute a decent post except I have been doing far too much reading recently and when I'm on the internet, my eyes just skip the long posts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 My wife is German/American(parents) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Null 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 I'm quite boringly only 1/4 from overseas, and not from a very exciting place at that Germans are ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 Seems like you are more intent on proving others wrong than having a sophisticated argument. Do you have issues with your parents? I don't like to mock but i would take a particular pleasure if you prove to be wrong about NH vs JV. That is simply uncalled for You know dribbler, I post my opinions, which usually includes, some facts, or thoughts as to why I am of that opinion. I don't expect people to agree with my opinions, but I take exception when people jump all over my opinions as being wrong, and then start making personal insults. When these same opinions, that generate such vile from others are then proven to be correct, I must say I do get some satisfaction from it. Not from being right, but by knowing that the vile retort was totally uncalled for. One of my first posts was about why I thought JV would out perform NH with examples of his driving style being more suited to the lower torque V8. Later on you post this "Other than your faith in JV what criteria are you working to?" I guess you chose to ignore my earlier qualifications of my opinion. If my opinion of JV's skill level is wrong and he is not up to the challenge of NH ,then that becomes fact, and you can do with it what ever you want. Until that time I am entitled to my opinion on how JV will fair against NH. Like I said before, all this opinionated bantering and posturing will be played out in the coming year. Regardless of the outcome I know I never resorted to threats of physical violence or made comments about one's upbringing. Good day to you sir. Indeed I did. Its debatable whether he would be retained if he chose to become Austrian, he would be far safer with German nationality, and, I Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Null 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 YHR, you have to realise that there are 2 groups of people in this world; those who like JV, and those who don't. Don't take it to heart when the latter group start to rip him. I used to dislike JV with a passion but that calmed down a lot in 2005. A tiny bit of my dislike has come back now people are comparing Nick Heidfeld the wunderkind with the underperforming ex-world champion, which is why there are many irrational posts by me in this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2006 YHR, you have to realise that there are 2 groups of people in this world; those who like JV, and those who don't. Don't take it to heart when the latter group start to rip him. I used to dislike JV with a passion but that calmed down a lot in 2005. A tiny bit of my dislike has come back now people are comparing Nick Heidfeld the wunderkind with the underperforming ex-world champion, which is why there are many irrational posts by me in this thread. You are forgiven. I can easily live with another persons opinion, but please don't (this is not directed at you)just go slagging and name calling for the sake of it. I have a very low tolerance for that type of behaviour. When I see that, it is like a matador waving a red flag at me, and I have to run at the offending person with my nostrils flared. I have tried my best to keep it in check(Senna and Murray as an example) If somebody came on here and slagged NH and threw out untruths and unsubstantiated opinions about his career or driving style, I would charge at them too! I like NH, and have nothing against him. He was given a golden opportunity at Williams, and he made the most out of it. He must beat JV if he expects to be taken seriously going forward from here. He has youth and a three year contract on his side, but if he comes out on the short end of the stick against JV this year, then he will have many doubters. Trust me I don't hate JV's team mates and am a fan of Massa now. Hopefully my focused attention of NH will result in my finding something about him I can cheer about also. Frankly I have not watched him enough to generate a worthwile opinion of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nojvnof1 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2006 Yes, that was a very good post and i thank you for taking the time to explain to me your stand on JV.Not a problem.Head thought JV was mad when he told him he wanted the car set up for the move. Yeah I read about that in his book. He said that the engineers said that they'd come and pick him out from the barrier, which was quite close to the track back then, should he attempt it. If we can both be objective about Jacques Villeneuve and Michael Schumacher, i think you and i can have some great debates.I look forward to them. Oh, your post as a whole was very good.mate, JV will not beat NH... trust me... I don't trust people who say 'trust me' Antonia... Oh YHR's post, I totally agree with him. This is it for him, there are no more excuses. It's perform and stay in F1 (well we hope so anyways, the paddock is a weird place) or fail and exit F1 stage right. I have enough confidence in JV that our support of him will be justified. I'm not saying he's going to win races or anything of the sort (it would be great though), but he'll do enough to earn the respect of those who've mocked him and earn his spot in F1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 15, 2006 I have a very low tolerance for that type of behaviour. When I see that, it is like a matador waving a red flag at me, and I have to run at the offending person with my nostrils flared. Hence all the bull? Where did i threaten you with physical violence? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Null 0 Report post Posted January 15, 2006 I don't trust people who say 'trust me' Antonia... Oh but you can trust me, I'm going to be a lawyer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nojvnof1 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Nah, I think I'll stick to my line of thinking... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Hence all the bull? Where did i threaten you with physical violence? You did not, Kaisersalsek, bless her heart, threatened to strangle me. However Good looking women threatening to strangle me, I can put up with. My wife tries all the time. Last night I was dreaming I was eating a big marshmellow. Woke up to find the wife holding a pillow over my head Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Another good post in the same thread! Shock, horror!! Seriously, good post Dribbler. It makes me wish I actually followed a driver, for once, instead of the sport as a whole. Supporting a driver or a team is more of a rollercoaster ride, you should try it sometime . If you support a driver or a team through adversity and they come good sometime, its a wonderful feeling, and it lasts a long time, I think that is what holds JVians together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michelfx 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Without wishing to be facetious for the sake of it, you seem a bit surprised. Give one good reason why the people at Munich should feel jubilant about managing Saubers most troublesome leftover.His driver input will be very good in terms of set-ups. NH will be looking for advice and JV will be quicker in the end. He will really drive to stay in the c#ckpit. It will be exciting to watch him be on the hairy edge.Oh but you can trust me, I'm going to be a lawyer stick to relevant input please Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Supporting a driver or a team is more of a rollercoaster ride, you should try it sometime .If you support a driver or a team through adversity and they come good sometime, its a wonderful feeling, and it lasts a long time, I think that is what holds JVians together. You may well be right there, Cav. The problem I have is that there don't seem to be the characters, the eccentrics and the downright lunatics among the drivers these days, as opposed to when I first got interested in F1. I get bored with the corporate speak and the sponsor friendly veneer. That's why I secretly admire JV for his approach. Likewise DC now that he's not in the shadow of the McLaren machine. Hmm. Looks like I'm well on the way to contradicting myself here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narain fan 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 . That's why I secretly admire JV for his approach. Likewise DC now that he's not in the shadow of the McLaren machine. Hmm. MG a JVian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michelfx 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 BMW has it all; a good PR guy for the german press and an Excellent driver for the real job at hand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michelfx 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 you got me on that one BMW has it all a good PR guy for the german press and a good driver that will help the team accomplish great things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 As Ive said before I have no doubt that in the not too distant future BMW will once again be a force in Formula 1. They have never failed in any motor sport (hence the fact they left Williams to go at it on their own). They have been champions in Formula 1(with Brabham) La mans, German touring cars, British touring cars, European touring cars, world touring cars, South African touring cars... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
