I Changed The Title For The Mentally Handicapped...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

`

Most of my friends are non-white and I know that what you say is true. I mean, they all can't be wrong. Where about in Josie are you?

Randburg, work in Bryanston. Good to have more South Africans on board.... So is Wez (he's in limbo since Alonso has been outperformed by the rookie this year, WAS a regular b4 then )....I think so is Hookedon and Ferrari...

I forget the others

[Quiet One 15]

Mike (in ase you are still around). I t hink you are being too literal on what Gracia said. The fact that he said that FIA will treat them fairly does not means he actually believes it.

No, no. That didn't come out right. I am sure both FIA and Gracia know that McLaren won't be so stupid as to blantantly help one of the drivers above the other. For the record, I think they never did that on the track (this year). That does not exclude the possibility of any employee feeling like he would go an help Lewis. "Ooops, the tire slipped off my hands when trying to change it". But, then again, that could have happened in any pervious race and there is no way anybody can tell whether one of those things happened by accident or not. Even the tire temperature issue.

I am quite confident that Ron must be even more fed up than us about all this. I don't think he wants more controversy. The championship situation, objectively, is in Lewis favor so unless Hammy really messes up why would they help him? And if he messes up, why help him, again?

Like I said, FIA and Gracia know this. FIA is engaged in some sort of cold war against McLaren, I have no idea why they keep rising the confrontation level every time things seem to cool down a little. For those who think that is because of Nando's claims I say bullsh*t. FIA would not get into a war against a team like McLaren just because Nando asked for it. Wouldn't have done that if Schumi asked for it at the peak of his career.

Gracia...Gracia is just a stupid, demagogic guy. He is just saying what he thinks the Spaniards want to hear. Thinking like a fan is no way to be an F1 authority. He pulled back about the unfair treatment issue mostly because of the bad reactions to his comments about racism. Otherwise he would have kept saying the same crap.

[NeoData 0]

Despite his earlier misgivings, Gracia now insists he is confident Alonso will be treated impartially and given every chance to win the title.

"I'm convinced that Hamilton and Alonso are going to get exactly the same treatment," he said.

"McLaren have demonstrated their professionalism over many years and so has Ron Dennis.

"I met with Ron Dennis at his request in Madrid this morning and we discussed the season and that meeting confirmed my confidence in him and the team."

****

I could care less about the racism remarks (in the context of Formula 1, that is) and would point your attention to the bit in bold. The head of the 'body' that requested an FIA presence in the McLaren pits has gone on record as saying that he's convinced Alonso will get fair treatment.

If this is so, why is the FIA continuing with the plan to put an FIA official in the McLaren pits? Certainly if the Spanish motorsports whatever is satisfied, then the FIA should be as well, no?

This reveals the true reason for the FIA official in the McLaren pits. Mosley is playing a game of perception...he's trying, at every opportunity, to erode McLaren's already shaky reputation. These are not the actions of an unbiased governing body. Pathetic.

Have you considered that maybe he is so sure because a FIA official has been appointed to make sure of that and

he probably also expects Ron Dennis is smart enough to ensure they both get the same treatment because his team is beeing watched closely.

[Sixten 0]

...This reveals the true reason for the FIA official in the McLaren pits. Mosley is playing a game of perception...he's trying, at every opportunity, to erode McLaren's already shaky reputation. These are not the actions of an unbiased governing body. Pathetic.

Couldn't agree more! That's exactly what Mosley's trying to do by all means right from the start...

I believe it has to do with something personal between those two (Mosley and Dennis)...

[Rainmaster 7]

Well Mike, have you finished your *business* yet?

I'm not sure the FIA should base their decisions on other people/organisation's opinions. So if they decided to not use a scrutineer in Brazil, then I think it would be a little silly of them to change their minds due to an outside influence. Personally I believe there should be no scrutineer, as for the FIA eroding Mclaren's reputation I'm not wholly convinced, then again who knows what vendettas are to be settled in the piranha club.

[Autumnpuma 0]

we should be discussing this issue like consenting adults, no use running away from the issue or ignoring it...

our friend ykick even gave a unique perspective of his situation

The topic was never about racism, as I pointed out, but Gracia's statement and the FIA's stance in light of it. I chose a catchy title that mentioned the word 'racism' and 'British' and that was a mistake.

Tackling racism. Hm. People are not equal, either mentally or physically and pretending that is so is simply ignorant. It's quite alright for a person to think his race is superior; maybe it is, if only in one small aspect of life. Races are not equal, but people should be treated equal under the law. Personally, I recognize the physical limitations, and superiorities, of each of our planet's races. That is fine and natural. I do not, however, treat anyone of any race differently. Martin Luther King stated my stance on it quite well when he looked to a future where men are judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Mike (in ase you are still around). I t hink you are being too literal on what Gracia said. The fact that he said that FIA will treat them fairly does not means he actually believes it.

No, no. That didn't come out right. I am sure both FIA and Gracia know that McLaren won't be so stupid as to blantantly help one of the drivers above the other. For the record, I think they never did that on the track (this year). That does not exclude the possibility of any employee feeling like he would go an help Lewis. "Ooops, the tire slipped off my hands when trying to change it". But, then again, that could have happened in any pervious race and there is no way anybody can tell whether one of those things happened by accident or not. Even the tire temperature issue.

Yes, I'm taking him literally, especially in light of the fact that it was his words voiced to the FIA that initiated this whole thing. If his words were valid enough to initiate it, then his words should be valid enough to end it.

You may be right that the FIA official in the McLaren pits would possibly deter a McLaren employee from sabotaging Alonso, but an argument could be made like that for every team on the grid, and every member of that team. Do we put an FIA official to watch Liuzzi to make sure he doesn't sabotage Vettel? Where does it stop?

Well Mike, have you finished your *business* yet?

Yes. I have napped and I feel better now.

I'm not sure the FIA should base their decisions on other people/organisation's opinions. So if they decided to not use a scrutineer in Brazil, then I think it would be a little silly of them to change their minds due to an outside influence. Personally I believe there should be no scrutineer, as for the FIA eroding Mclaren's reputation I'm not wholly convinced, then again who knows what vendettas are to be settled in the piranha club.

It's my understanding that each country's motor-sporting organization has representatives in the FIA, and that would, I assume, include Spain. In this case, the FIA were acting under the concerns of one of it's members. The FIA have the right to do what they did, much as I disagree with the decision to do so, and they now have the opportunity to stop this right now. Will they take it? I hate the term 'slippery slope' but it seems to fit here.

[Fed up 0]

I'm sorry Mike but I think you are being naive in posting an article in which Gracia accuses all Brits of being racists and then berating us for taking umbradge - If you wanted a thread debating his comments it would perhaps been wise to exclude the first part of the post.

Issues surrounding racism are not an aside they are real - Perhaps you should have thought of that before starting this thread.

Just my view

[Autumnpuma 0]

I'm sorry Mike but I think you are being naive in posting an article in which Gracia accuses all Brits of being racists and then berating us for taking umbradge - If you wanted a thread debating his comments it would perhaps been wise to exclude the first part of the post.

Issues surrounding racism are not an aside they are real - Perhaps you should have thought of that before starting this thread.

Just my view

That would be a valid point except that in my original post I pointed out that the racist comments weren't the focus of this thread. I kept the entire article, as I tend to do, unaltered. My mistake was in using 'racism' in the title to generate interest. So sue me.

Issues surrounding racism are an aside when it's not the subject being talked about. No worries, continue the race debate.

[Rainmaster 7]

Yes. I have napped and I feel better now.

It's my understanding that each country's motor-sporting organization has representatives in the FIA, and that would, I assume, include Spain. In this case, the FIA were acting under the concerns of one of it's members. The FIA have the right to do what they did, much as I disagree with the decision to do so, and they now have the opportunity to stop this right now. Will they take it? I hate the term 'slippery slope' but it seems to fit here.

Yes, I suppose that is quite right, countries having representatives and all that. The problem is that they (the FIA) won't want to change such a big decision now, might embarass them too much to reverse this one. Me, well I'm glad, at least if Lewis wins we won't get a load of inequality rubbish from the Fernando fellowship, not for that particular race at least.

As for racism, 'Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason'. Although what's that's got to do with this thread I'm not sure.

[YHR 0]

Ugh. I'm done with this thread. I'm off to search for porn.

Well, what can I say. Nero plays the violin while rome burns, comes to mind.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Well, what can I say. Nero plays the violin while rome burns, comes to mind.

[Quiet One 15]

You may be right that the FIA official in the McLaren pits would possibly deter a McLaren employee from sabotaging Alonso, but an argument could be made like that for every team on the grid, and every member of that team. Do we put an FIA official to watch Liuzzi to make sure he doesn't sabotage Vettel? Where does it stop?

Sorry, I didn't express myself well as usual! I didn't want to focus on whether the FIA guy could have any deterrent effect, because I don't think so (small sabotage is impossible to prove), because I don't think there will actually be any sabotage, and because I don't think the FIA really gives a darn about fair treatment at McLaren.

Like I said (or tried to), FIA may have used Gracia's comments as an excuse for the scrutinizing thing. I didn't follow the whole issue, but I think the FIA decision came before Gracia's comments. In the end, it is quite obvious that FIA's decision was totally unrelated to whatever Gracia thinks. Hence, even if Gracia takes back his claims of unfairness, they will still be playing their own game against McLaren.

Now, what is really going on between McLaren and FIA, that I honestly have no idea.

[FUschumi 0]

Sorry, I didn't express myself well as usual! I didn't want to focus on whether the FIA guy could have any deterrent effect, because I don't think so (small sabotage is impossible to prove), because I don't think there will actually be any sabotage, and because I don't think the FIA really gives a darn about fair treatment at McLaren.

Like I said (or tried to), FIA may have used Gracia's comments as an excuse for the scrutinizing thing. I didn't follow the whole issue, but I think the FIA decision came before Gracia's comments. In the end, it is quite obvious that FIA's decision was totally unrelated to whatever Gracia thinks. Hence, even if Gracia takes back his claims of unfairness, they will still be playing their own game against McLaren.

Now, what is really going on between McLaren and FIA, that I honestly have no idea.

As mentioned many times, everything is in the hand of Max Mosley. His management/leadership skill is deteriorating and there are more Ferrari/Italian members than others in WMSC. That's what many conclude.

[Piotr 0]

Calling someone a migrant isnt as insulting as calling someone a alien.

I have been called a "resident alien" since 1981 and NOBODY told me to be insulted!!!

Thanks, ykickamoocow!

[Piotr 0]

How are we racist, 7 million are migrants alone in this country!

Well, my understanding is half of them are Polish (the best British football players are from Poland!!! Just like the best plumbers in Paris are from Warsaw). So, they COULD be racist , I guess....

[Piotr 0]

I very worthy goal

Just open a new window-that way when wife or kid comes in you just click... Oh, that's right, I would have NO IDEA about that...

[Kael 0]

The topic was never about racism, as I pointed out, but Gracia's statement and the FIA's stance in light of it. I chose a catchy title that mentioned the word 'racism' and 'British' and that was a mistake.

Tackling racism. Hm. People are not equal, either mentally or physically and pretending that is so is simply ignorant. It's quite alright for a person to think his race is superior; maybe it is, if only in one small aspect of life. Races are not equal, but people should be treated equal under the law. Personally, I recognize the physical limitations, and superiorities, of each of our planet's races. That is fine and natural. I do not, however, treat anyone of any race differently. Martin Luther King stated my stance on it quite well when he looked to a future where men are judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Yes, I'm taking him literally, especially in light of the fact that it was his words voiced to the FIA that initiated this whole thing. If his words were valid enough to initiate it, then his words should be valid enough to end it.

You may be right that the FIA official in the McLaren pits would possibly deter a McLaren employee from sabotaging Alonso, but an argument could be made like that for every team on the grid, and every member of that team. Do we put an FIA official to watch Liuzzi to make sure he doesn't sabotage Vettel? Where does it stop?

Yes. I have napped and I feel better now.

It's my understanding that each country's motor-sporting organization has representatives in the FIA, and that would, I assume, include Spain. In this case, the FIA were acting under the concerns of one of it's members. The FIA have the right to do what they did, much as I disagree with the decision to do so, and they now have the opportunity to stop this right now. Will they take it? I hate the term 'slippery slope' but it seems to fit here.

You're wrong! Giving every race the same environment, circumstances, privileges - we're all equal! I wonder if your findings does not stem from a belief in evolution ...

[B.P. 0]

Interesting article. I'm getting a bit worried about FIAs fascist actions on McLaren. Can anyone tell me what McLaren has done (apart from Stepneygate) to annoy FIA so much ? Or is it a personal, between Max and Ron, is there history here ? Personally I don't know, can someone explain ?

[devilsinskirtsisback 0]

You're wrong! Giving every race the same environment, circumstances, privileges - we're all equal!

Given that this can never actually happen - how do you know?

[Kael 0]

Given that this can never actually happen - how do you know?

Actually misinformed, it is starting to happen ...here in SA

[devilsinskirtsisback 0]

Actually misinformed, it is starting to happen ...here in SA

Really? In South Africa they have found a way to remove 10,000 years of cultural heritage and start with a completely blank slate with every single piece of conditioning and culturally caused genetics on either side removed?

Given that Mike was referring to the possibility of differing races having differing attributes, and that those attributes would have been formed over the millenia by and because of their culture and associated factors affecting that culture - the only way to be 100% sure that all races attributes are precisely equal would be to remove that history from their make up. Which is impossible.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Really? In South Africa they have found a way to remove 10,000 years of cultural heritage and start with a completely blank slate with every single piece of conditioning and culturally caused genetics on either side removed?

Given that Mike was referring to the possibility of differing races having differing attributes, and that those attributes would have been formed over the millenia by and because of their culture and associated factors affecting that culture - the only way to be 100% sure that all races attributes are precisely equal would be to remove that history from their make up. Which is impossible.

I re-iterate Kaels's point.... read it carefully and you might understand what he's trying to say... "Giving every race the same environment, circumstances, privileges - we're all equal!" It's not about cultural attributes (a child born into this world today does'nt have any genetic cultural heritage make-up), we're not talking about possibilities...it's about living at the present moment.....it's about given a chance on equal footing, realising that just a tad more of melanin does'nt make that person stupid dumber or slighly different... we are all the same. Kael, like me, are seeing this!

Don't try cover or use Mike's points to your advantage, I know what you are from previous post.

[monza gorilla 1]

Yeah. Celtic.

I know what all three of you mean. And I think there is a misunderstanding under way.

[devilsinskirtsisback 0]

Don't try cover or use Mike's points to your advantage, I know what you are from previous post.

Quite.

Mike stated a point, Kael refuted that point but in so doing actually looked at a different point, I attempted to rectify that. You have re-iterated the same different point.

What I have said previously and whether or not you agree or disagree with my stance on that particular subject is irrelevant to the subject at hand, whether or not religion vs evolution is brought into play - the two are not mutually exclusive.

[devilsinskirtsisback 0]

Yeah. Celtic.

I know what all three of you mean. And I think there is a misunderstanding under way.

Agreed. But I prefer Scots, the C word has so many other connotations.