267 replies to this topic

[Quiet One]

Ouch

More Ouchs


An awful situation, awfully managed.

I don't know what to say, really. This isn't even funny anymore.

[Rainmaster]

Well bollock moi, I thought we were done discussing this subject.

I am sure Mclaren will be okay though. I wonder what kind of sanctions they face, will the WMSC get draconian on their cheating asses, another $100m cheque; exclusion from the constructor's championship; or maybe just a slap on the wrist.

As we see it, Lewis is likely to go unpunished, Ryan has lost his job, yet the rest of the team who were least culpable are likely to face the most severe punishment.

Oh and btw, I can see you laughing Andres  

[pumpdoc]

Liars, all of them are damn liars and for continuing the lie at Maylasia is beyond stupid.

[Jean Todt]

Some here would have experienced multiple orgasms after reading those stories. Actually there could be even more bad news with Mercedes thinking about its future in this sport, may be Mclaren would have it enough and focus on roadcars. Mclaren are as important as Ferrari, so are Williams. Without these three names, F1 is not F1, Ferrari is nothing without Mclaren. What I have seen in the past few days are total double standards, many people have lied even though they knew that everyone knew they were lying, many cheated in broad day light and got away with it, its Mclaren that has to pay. And that too heavily. If I were Ron Dennis, I would have pulled out of this sport and convinced others to follow and start a rival series, full of innovations less bulls##t. DOF would be given Max's role.

[Piotr]

it's OK to lie- just don't get caught....
No, not really.

[whiskee]

I don't think they deserve more than a slap on the wrist. Ryan should be the one to carry all the consequences.
If they would get another fine in the class of $100M it would probably be the end of the team, since Mercedes is already reconsidering their position.

[foxtrot023]

certainly puts 2007 in perspective

[Jenson_Rules]

Well they shouldn't have lied, and continued to lie even when it was obvious the FIA knew the truth! Not only that they were acting selfish and ungentlemanly for not telling the truth and letting Trulli and Toyota get punished.

They deserve it as far as I'm concerned and hopefully once and for all they will quit with all this cheating, lies and deceit! None of us want to see F1 lose McLaren but what they have become in recent years is nothing short of shameful and I sincerely hope they have finally learnt their lesson!

Time will tell...

[Max Mosley]

McLaren have done some stupid things, no doubt about that.  But I would be pretty upset if they get further penalised.  I think the fine in 2007 was over the top, and unfairly singled out McLaren, likely for some ulterior motive, and it looks like the same might happen again.  Hamilton and McLaren are certainly not the first to lie in this way, or to be proven guilty.

[kuskor]

It's not like Hamilton is underage or something. The current WC should know there are consequences to his words. I would say a 5-10 grid position penalty would be about right, then a few thousand bucks fine for the team and then the whole thing should be put to rest.

I am not sure they were ever actually aware what they were doing ( ).  Did they ever get a ruling about if Hamilton had to let Trulli pass or not? They didn't ask because they knew he had to let him pass? Hamilton let him though after being told to, then they say "stay ahead we are asking charlie" as if Ryan felt Hamilton had to let him pass and he let it slip through the mic withough having a ruling and then had to build a huge plot around the whole thing to cover his lack of decision making.

After Trulli was let through, then there could be no asking to be let back through again. Or maybe it would be simpler if Hamilton had just passed when Trulli slowed down to let him through again, in which case he would have had third.  That is the slighltly idiotic version of someone f****in up while trying to cover their own a##. The more idiotic one is that there actually was an intricate plot in place that slipped on the detail that everyone was listening in on the coms. If they could be fined for stupidity it would be probably bigger than they are worth.

[AleHop]

foxtrot023, on Apr 7 2009, 11:39 PM, said:

certainly puts 2007 in perspective

       I didn't know the last part of the story. They are stupid???? WTF were they thinking in Malasia lying again?    Who's pinocchio?

[King_Alonso786]

I knew Mclaren were liars anyway so I'm not surprised at this latest scandal

After sacking Dave Ryan for no reason and making him out to be the scapegoat, It reminds me of 2007 when Alonso was made out to be the bad guy.

They have finally been exposed as liars

[yurp]

When F1 becomes so political, it's no wonder teams start acting like politicians.
Liars and cheats.
Fine them - whatever - they haven't got much of a chance this season anyhow - which is nice.

Edited by adamstrags, 08 April 2009 - 12:18 AM.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Murray Walker, on Apr 7 2009, 11:30 PM, said:

McLaren have done some stupid things, no doubt about that.  But I would be pretty upset if they get further penalised.  I think the fine in 2007 was over the top, and unfairly singled out McLaren, likely for some ulterior motive, and it looks like the same might happen again.  Hamilton and McLaren are certainly not the first to lie in this way, or to be proven guilty.

History has shown that F1 teams cheat and lie and always will. However, I think this situation is different for two reasons:

1) McLaren were already operating on a yellow card, in effect following Spygate. Dumb, therefore for them to do anything to aggravate FIA.
2) They were monumentally stoopid in sticking to their (false) story even after they had been presented the evidence. This beggars belief and frankly they deserve a slapping for this alone. A smart principal would have owned up and said - "sorry there was some confusion" and take any mild penalty ensuing. But to carry on lying knowing that you are wrong, knowing that the FIA have served a yellow card and knowing that you've been caught out is suicidal. What was it Whitmarsh said? Something along the lines of having been on holiday with his wife, so not up to speed with things????

If I were Mercedes/Vodafone I would be baying for blood now and would certainly be questioning future involvement.

The other interesting thing in this is who Hami has turned to: Max. This demonstrates to me just how bad things are between the Hamiltons and McLaren and also begs some questions:

- I thought originally that the press conference by Hami was a face-saving exercise instigated by McLaren but now makes me wonder if this was done without McLaren's input/consent
- I wonder at what point the Hamiltons approached Max and 'fessed up?

[maure]

foxtrot023, on Apr 7 2009, 10:39 PM, said:

certainly puts 2007 in perspective

Those that refused to see it then, won't see it now.

Amusingly, they once filled the forums with unending violent posts on the subject...

Murray Walker, on Apr 7 2009, 11:30 PM, said:

McLaren have done some stupid things, no doubt about that.  But I would be pretty upset if they get further penalised.  I think the fine in 2007 was over the top, and unfairly singled out McLaren, likely for some ulterior motive, and it looks like the same might happen again.  Hamilton and McLaren are certainly not the first to lie in this way, or to be proven guilty.

Yep. There is more to it than meets the eye. Pity this is not the place to have that discussion.

Nope. Their guilt is no less because others _might_ have done lied "in this way".

Beyond that, as my signature says...

[icemanrules!]

fine them shut them and let them race

[wapi]

icemanrules!, on Apr 8 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

fine them shut them and let them race

I agree. It would be very bad and unjust to punish McM with any draconian measure.

Whitmarsh seemed as reasonable guy compared to RD (in spygate saga), but in this last scandal he has been making worse move after bad move. McM is aggravating their situation with every action they take. LH was the only one to make clever thing for himself and his future career.


IMO MW and Dave Ryan should be banned from motorsport under auspices of FIA for 5-10 years and that should be only sanction.

What is Mercedes going to do? Hamiltons? Vodafone? It all depends on WSMC rulling and McM further behavior. I would not be surprised that Mercedes sets ultimatum that MW (and possibly RD) must be gone if they are to stay involved in McLaren.

if Hamilton leaves them it is not end of the World, Kova is good driver capable of being quick if he has fair chance. Maybe they can have Alonso back...

All sorts of good things for the sport might come out of this

Edited by wapi, 08 April 2009 - 08:24 AM.

[Jean Todt]

I don't really know whats the big fuss about such a small lie, if every lie had been taken seriously, Marrages would only last for days, politicians can never be in their position for more than five seconds. There have been lot of other lie related incidents concerning with other teams, yet go without a notice. As usual, its the same members of this forum who fill their bs thoughts about Mclaren lying blah blah.....once the Mclarens are back to their speed, everyone of us will see them flee faster than the Mclarens.

Not enough they had eat their own hats last season....We really missed them last season, and some of them came back only after a certain driver won a grandprix by fluke...

[yurp]

If I thought they had a knats chance in hell this year, I'd probably be more disgruntled than I am.
Quite frankly I'm finding it impossible to get that worked up about it though.
The fact that they've got no hope of winning anything this season is punishment in itself - let them eat humble pie.
I know that we should be just as infuriated by force india cheating as say ferrari, but I just can't be bothered.
Had force india been found guilty of a spygate-like offence last season I'd probably have not really given much of a s##te.
Let's face it - nor would many of the chief complainers here.
McLaren are ****ed enough this season - I take comfort from that.

[Quiet One]

I agree with Ben and Meanie Weenie.

[maure]

abbas_gear, on Apr 8 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

I don't really know whats the big fuss about such a small lie, if every lie had been taken seriously, Marrages would only last for days, politicians can never be in their position for more than five seconds. There have been lot of other lie related incidents concerning with other teams, yet go without a notice. As usual, its the same members of this forum who fill their bs thoughts about Mclaren lying blah blah.....once the Mclarens are back to their speed, everyone of us will see them flee faster than the Mclarens.

Not enough they had eat their own hats last season....We really missed them last season, and some of them came back only after a certain driver won a grandprix by fluke...

Sure. Lying to disqualify another driver in order to steal a position is a "small" thing. Diminutive. Lilliputian.

Lewisterics.

[AleHop]

Meanioni, on Apr 8 2009, 08:44 AM, said:

History has shown that F1 teams cheat and lie and always will. However, I think this situation is different for two reasons:

1) McLaren were already operating on a yellow card, in effect following Spygate. Dumb, therefore for them to do anything to aggravate FIA.
2) They were monumentally stoopid in sticking to their (false) story even after they had been presented the evidence. This beggars belief and frankly they deserve a slapping for this alone. A smart principal would have owned up and said - "sorry there was some confusion" and take any mild penalty ensuing. But to carry on lying knowing that you are wrong, knowing that the FIA have served a yellow card and knowing that you've been caught out is suicidal. What was it Whitmarsh said? Something along the lines of having been on holiday with his wife, so not up to speed with things????

If I were Mercedes/Vodafone I would be baying for blood now and would certainly be questioning future involvement.

The other interesting thing in this is who Hami has turned to: Max. This demonstrates to me just how bad things are between the Hamiltons and McLaren and also begs some questions:

- I thought originally that the press conference by Hami was a face-saving exercise instigated by McLaren but now makes me wonder if this was done without McLaren's input/consent
- I wonder at what point the Hamiltons approached Max and 'fessed up?

I completely agree. And about Hamilton now I think he is not the good team player he's always been claiming. He's not even a team player.He wants his a## dry and safe above his own team, and of course louds of money and the quickest car of them all. The Hamiltons have showed what they want and what they are in F1 for. No surprise really.

[icemanrules!]

maure, on Apr 8 2009, 07:21 PM, said:

Sure. Lying to disqualify another driver in order to steal a position is a "small" thing. Diminutive. Lilliputian.

Lewisterics.

more like lewistirical I say!

[icemanrules!]

AleHop, on Apr 8 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

I completely agree. And about Hamilton now I think he is not the good team player he's always been claiming. He's not even a team player.He wants his a## dry and safe above his own team, and of course louds of money and the quickest car of them all. The Hamiltons have showed what they want and what they are in F1 for. No surprise really.

I feel that the Aussie GP was the final straw for him, even if it was only the first race, which goes to show his perseverance with the same team he promised to end his life with! 'Muscling'  a slow car all the way to 3rd and then all the BS after, which meant no one was praising him for his uber cool drive was a little too hard for lewis to take. And on top of that he is called a liar for being a team player. Papa Hamilton will for sure have a large hand to play in Baby Hamilton's future at macca.

Edited by icemanrules!, 08 April 2009 - 02:32 PM.

[Quiet One]

I am not entering into the Hamilton debate because I know it will get pretty ugly, but I have my opinion about him and his acts.

But the worst thing is the Ryan's sacking. I am pretty sure that he didn't suddenly became so stupid as to lie twice in the face of F1 stewards. The guy has been around for 35 years iirc. Would he throw that all away making such a stupid thing? I can barely stretch my imagination to picture him lieing the first time. I cannot picture him being asked again, showed the recordings and STILL lieing.

Sorry, but I think Ryan's career and honor (whatever it was before all this, I admit I don't know) were thrown to the lions due to a very lame intent of McLaren at damage limitation.

[mikathegreat2]

AleHop, on Apr 7 2009, 11:46 PM, said:

       I didn't know the last part of the story. They are stupid???? WTF were they thinking in Malasia lying again?    Who's pinocchio?

  

[AleHop]

icemanrules!, on Apr 8 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

...which meant no one was praising him for his uber cool drive was a little too hard for lewis to take. And on top of that he is called a liar for being a team player.

Are you joking? Come On! Oh, no one was praising him... I'm sure it was nothing compared to what they used to do when Alonso won a race or grabbed a pole position or achieved a good result in 2007. The face of the team when Alonso beat Hamilton could be a little too hard for Alonso. God!

A team player? We thought he was completely attached to McLaren, we thought he was a loyal team member and a faithful team player but we were wrong. They missed their chance to let Alonso become attached to them and now they have to deal with Ron Dennis' monster. They deserve what they have.

[Jean Todt]

maure, on Apr 8 2009, 02:51 PM, said:

Sure. Lying to disqualify another driver in order to steal a position is a "small" thing. Diminutive. Lilliputian.

Lewisterics.

The kind of idotic response I was expecting, the debate was all about what happened two weeks back, not two years back....

Edited by abbas_gear, 08 April 2009 - 03:19 PM.

[icemanrules!]

Also where was Lewis's supposedly "I'm a team player" hat when he refused to let Alonso maintain the lead and fumed at RD in 2007 Monaco.

And by "no one" I mean the media Alehop not Mclaren

[Rainmaster]

Andres, do you see what you've done?

This thread is like a time machine back to all the BS from 07...