A Question About Fatherhood...

[Max Mosley 2]

I've discussed this with various people recently and would like a straw poll here on it. I assume we all agree that in practice fathers are not as caring and nurturing as mothers are. In that case, why not? And what can be done about it? And how important is it that we do something about it? Do men, women and/or children lose out from this?

Just to be clear, the poll is about whether we could create a world where fathers were as caring and nurturing as mothers. Is it possible in 50 years time, for example? That's what I tried to say by 'in principle'.

[Quiet One 15]

Sorry. No easy answer there. Except, perhaps "Graham, you have too much free time in your hands"

Or: "I told you to use a condom!"

[Kopite Girl 0]

I've discussed this with various people recently and would like a straw poll here on it. I assume we all agree that in practice fathers are not as caring and nurturing as mothers are. In that case, why not? And what can be done about it? And how important is it that we do something about it? Do men, women and/or children lose out from this?

Just to be clear, the poll is about whether we could create a world where fathers were as caring and nurturing as mothers. Is it possible in 50 years time, for example? That's what I tried to say by 'in principle'.

I voted yes, though I think the question is a little unfair.

Men and women are different in the way they express emotions. Parents also. Stereotype tells us our mothers are there for us to show love, shower us with kisses when we're small and scrape our knees, support us emotionally whilst our dads are there for discipline, as providers, someone we can go to to ask advice about boys (in the female case) or learn us how to shave and chat up girls (in the male case). Our protector (again, female) and guide (male).

In my experience and life I am a daddy's girl and not afraid to admit it. My dad was there when I fell down and used to hug me and sing me to sleep. He's still there now when I'm down. He's also all the other things I said above. But yes, dad's do have the capability to be as nurturing as mums, albeit a little differently. I'm lucky. I can talk to my dad about anything at all. I told him about my first monthly for pete's sake! Its just on some things I will go to my mum. Its personal choice whether you let your father be as nurturing as your mother.

But like I say, stereotype will always play a part. Its up to you to bridge that gap.

Right. Back to this wedding reception. I'm not doing to bad for someone whos polished a bottle of JD off!

[AleHop 0]

I voted no, I think mom/dad roles are complementary and you need some balance above all. Sometimes dads can act like moms and moms like dads but generally speaking: una madre es una madre o madre no hay m

[Persevere 0]

At the risk of stepping into the deep end of the pool I do believe that fathers are capable "...of being as caring and nurturing as mothers." However, "...on average..." I don't believe so. This I base solely on my observations over the last 25 - 30 years.

Weighing the essential differences, the parental male tends towards being more self-serving, more self-centered. If he is focused on his offspring that child will receive all the love, attention and consideration possible. The parental female, on the other hand, is much more attuned to the child and his or her needs hour to hour and day to day. The child might not experience the same giddy 'highs' with the mother as he or she does with the father but the female parent will always be nearby and at hand; more of a calm, steadying presence than the father.

I'm not certain one can change such things (i.e., the quality of parenting) any more than we can alter any other behavioral patterns in adults. Something I have noticed is that adults who have children at an older age will often display exceptional qualities as parents, and there is the logical reason of having waited longer to have a child and therefore desiring parenthood at a heightened level. That certainly doesn't mean that if you're a father or mother at 20 you'll never measure up, or that you will deprive your child of anything less than a well-rounded if not memorable childhood. I just think for some people being able to wait until the time is right (whatever that phrase may mean) can be beneficial.

Something else I have also noticed over the years is the excellent parenting skills of same sex couples with their (usually) adopted child. That notion may not sit well with everyone but from what I have witnessed someone's sexual orientation has no bearing on their ability to love and care for a child.

[dribbler 6]

I hope my son tells me he is gay so I can prove how cool I am.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I've discussed this with various people recently and would like a straw poll here on it. I assume we all agree that in practice fathers are not as caring and nurturing as mothers are. In that case, why not? And what can be done about it? And how important is it that we do something about it? Do men, women and/or children lose out from this?

Just to be clear, the poll is about whether we could create a world where fathers were as caring and nurturing as mothers. Is it possible in 50 years time, for example? That's what I tried to say by 'in principle'.

No I don't agree with your assumption. It is also impossible to generalise.

I'm a father and grandfather. I've also supported relatives who have had absent fathers for one reason or another.

How do you measure caring and nurturing? You can't. What makes a good parent? Impossible to answer as it varies from child to child and their needs/personality.

What I do know is that for a child to grow up, feeling supported, being loved they need input from a mother and father figure. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses and every couple is difficult. Sometimes the input will come from somewhere else. My father was a business guy who worked long, hard and late. Never saw much of him. My two brothers and my sister's long term boyfriend filled the void. I got to know my father properly once he retired.

I don't think anything needs to be done about "it", because I don't think "it" is a problem.

More of an issue for me is the increased number of single parent families with the lack of input from a significant other parent.

[Schumikonen 2]

I voted yes because I am that kind of father and my kids can tell you that but I think that fathers just need to spend more time with their kids and get involved in their lives, culture often separate both rolls giving each one different "tasks" and maybe that is the cause of this confusion, as some men think that a man should not be doing women tasks like taking care of the children, at least that's the way it is in most latin american countries.

[Kopite Girl 0]

My point exactly ref 'tasks' Tommy.

My dad is hugely calming on me. I go to him with most stuff. We'll chat it out, and I'll leave with a hug.

He once said to me when I was first born he held me in his arms. Said the love he felt was nothing compared to any other emotion. If anything, I believe the love of a father is one of the most powerful things in this lifetime. I'm lucky.

[pabloh20 1]

I've discussed this with various people recently and would like a straw poll here on it. I assume we all agree that in practice fathers are not as caring and nurturing as mothers are. In that case, why not? And what can be done about it? And how important is it that we do something about it? Do men, women and/or children lose out from this?

Just to be clear, the poll is about whether we could create a world where fathers were as caring and nurturing as mothers. Is it possible in 50 years time, for example? That's what I tried to say by 'in principle'.

Oh for bollocking sake, Muzza, how many times have I told you?? All she wants to hear afterwards, because let's be honest, all she will want to do is get home, get showered & scrubbed........and possibly rat arsed to try and erase the memory, is that her bus fare is on the table

[LabradoRacer 2]

Yes, fathers can be as caring as mums. My dad is a living example.

[HandyNZL 1]

Of course fathers can. And as a father myself, I'd hate for anyone to think I loved and cared and nurtured my daughter any less than her mother. You don't meet the love of your life till your daughter/son is in your arms.

[Persevere 0]

Great passion on display with this thread. D**n, that's why I like you guys (you too, of course, Stephy). It's terribly difficult to be objective on a topic like this. Allow me to briefly bring two points into the conversation.

A.) My Netflix weekly rental disc was The Deep End with Tilda Swinton, and my wife & I watched it last night. Firstly, it's a very good movie, plain and simple. But in keeping with our topic I thought that it showed keen insight into the extreme lengths a mother will go to protect her child, in this case a teenage son. She is both determined and desperate, focused and confused, but she never stops in her attempts to protect her son; there are no limits to what she will do.

B.) The second point is real and tragic. A family moved in to our neighborhood some 10 or 12 years ago, parents with two young daughters. They were always an absolute delight in their manner, thoroughly charming, intelligent and fun girls. The youngest daughter went off to college in September. Four weeks ago she was admitted to a local hospital with the H1N1 virus compounded with pneumonia. Her parents flew down immediately to be with her. We got the call from a neighbor 4 days ago that she had died. Her father, an intelligent man who is also a professor at a highly rated university, was - and is - a calm, gentle, generous soul who always gave as much time as necessary to his daughters. I would always think of him as being an exceptional parent, a father who provides all the care a child could ever need.

And now that I am losing my composure I'll sign off.

[Schumikonen 2]

My point exactly ref 'tasks' Tommy.

My dad is hugely calming on me. I go to him with most stuff. We'll chat it out, and I'll leave with a hug.

He once said to me when I was first born he held me in his arms. Said the love he felt was nothing compared to any other emotion. If anything, I believe the love of a father is one of the most powerful things in this lifetime. I'm lucky.

Yes you are very lucky, I've a friend who told me that he grew up expecting a hug form his father or any touch or soft word, he told me how much he desire to sit in his father's lap and play with him even for a minute but that never happened, probably because of that story is that I am the way I am with my kids.

[lewisthegreat2 0]

I have a question about fatherhood, too. Where do babies come from?

I'd say you're a pretty poor parent if you just stick to "traditional" gender roles. Everyone has the ability to be caring, nurturing, loving. I do think that, on average, it can be harder for a father to show it only because, on average, if one parent works and the other does not, it's usually the father who, on average, is working, on average. But that's no excuse. When you suck as a parent, your children suck as people, and that's no fun for anyone

Maybe people should have to take a loving, caring, and general awesomeness exam before reproducing. They'd have to say three nice things about Meanioni, and then we'd know they're really great people.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Surely this question poses another question. Can Mothers be as disciplined as fathers?

[AleHop 0]

Surely this question poses another question. Can Mothers be as disciplined as fathers?

I hope they can't. The most disciplined people I know are women and many of them are moms.

[LabradoRacer 2]

What do you do when your father has been treating you too shabbily for far too long? Take a gun & pop him off.

[LabradoRacer 2]

What's the height of fatherly affection? A man with bitch tits trying to breastfeed his li'l ones.

[maure 1]

It's not an issue of gender but of individuals.

So neither "fathers" nor "mothers" are better than each other at anything. Individuals, regardless of their gender, make the best and worst parents.

Food for thought. The bias in your question adds insult to injury to the millions of children that have, have had, and will have rotten mothers.

[Schumikonen 2]

So far this thread is looking very good I hope we can keep it up like this. congratulations to all participans and Muzza for starting it.

[LabradoRacer 2]

It's not an issue of gender but of individuals.

So neither "fathers" nor "mothers" are better than each other at anything. Individuals, regardless of their gender, make the best and worst parents.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[HandyNZL 1]

I have a question about fatherhood, too. Where do babies come from?

Babies come from...well, i think this site can explain it better for you, Eric. http://tinyurl.com/yb72lcs

[Medilloni 6]

I've discussed this with various people recently and would like a straw poll here on it. I assume we all agree that in practice fathers are mothnot as caring and nurturing as ers are.

That's a bit of an old fashioned view. From the days of, 'children should be seen and not heard' maybe?. And I think it's fair to say a bit of biased bad press too.

In that case, why not? And what can be done about it? And how important is it that we do something about it? Do men, women and/or children lose out from this?

If it was the case, which it can be (and the same for some mothers too), the only thing you can do is teach people in a way that improves their emotional intelligence. Most of all, of all the really young ones that fart a kid out for some benefits, they need to understand their previous life is over, making the effort to give so much (when you're not ready) is a painful trip if you've not considered it before.

Just to be clear, the poll is about whether we could create a world where fathers were as caring and nurturing as mothers. Is it possible in 50 years time, for example? That's what I tried to say by 'in principle'.

We already have it Muzza (the world....), in that there's gazillions of great mothers and fathers. Sadly, I think it's a fairly even balance for the twat-parents on both sides of the the gender thang. Like a couple of others on here, I'm *cough* mature enough to have made and seen some terrible mistakes over the years, and from that we hopefully learn. Hand on heart, if I'd have had my son 30 years ago, I'd have been too selfish to be a great dad, so I avoided it like the plague. I've heard the same from many succesful women I've worked with too (succesful, i.e. worked their bollocks off, some well educated in the conventional sense, some well educated in the 'life' sense).

Some have talked about stereotypical roles of mums and dads... discipline etc, almost like we have two different 'jobs', which I think is a bit old fashioned - men (in 'general'!) aren't afraid of showing their feelings and can work from the heart these days - and that's probably the basics of what you need to be a great parent.

As HandyNZ says...

Of course fathers can. And as a father myself, I'd hate for anyone to think I loved and cared and nurtured my daughter any less than her mother. You don't meet the love of your life till your daughter/son is in your arms.

......there's your answer.

[Jez 0]

I hope my son tells me he is gay so I can prove how cool I am.