radical-one

So When Will Pirelli Bring Better Tires ?

217 posts in this topic

IMO Pirelli is stealing away the real essence of REAL hard racing by bringing in Eraser-type compounds than the real heavy duty F1 racing tires. I mean, why would the teams have to conserve tires and not run enough qualifying laps just to save tires? F1 fans are there to see action/laps not sitting in the garage waiting to one lap.

I'd rather see another tire war than a single supplier that is not worth an F1 level but an F3 level - if that....dam.gif

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Fill 'em with custard (the tyres, not the drivers) - that would sort the men out from the boys.... :)

Seriously though, think the tyres are playing too big a role in the racing currently, I was a bit amazed to see some drivers 4-stopping in Bahrain.

Pirelli need to create a formula that degrades more gradually and not with a cliff-face like they do currently.

Well, that, or fill them with custard... :)

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I think the tyres should have a pictures of clothed women on them, but as the tyre wears out they start losing their clothes until they become naked. More points will be gained for drivers that can lose the most clothes off the women. Obviously, nakedness is past the 'cliff face' threshold of the tyre and so only the truly brave drivers will get maximum points. Sutil can have pictures of men on his.

Tyres have become a bit of a sticky point (pun intended). I think a tyre only lasting 6 or 7 laps as in China, was going a bit too far. Bahrain didn't seem quite so bad to me in general, but there were obviously some teams who struggled. I actually don't mind having one tyre that gives much better lap times, but wears a lot quicker, however, it has to be able to last longer than 6 or 7 laps for a team to actually do something meaningful with the strategy.

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Never.

This is what teams asked for in 2010. They should quit their moaning and just get on with it.

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Basically its a lottery. You never know when your tyre will wear out, or explode, or fly away. It's their natural replacement for refuelling when you never knew when your car would catch fire or not.

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I think there's a bit of general hysteria concerning the tires. As usual, I watch now and then some full races from past seasons and I was watching the 2006 championship. Even with the sweet memories of Alonso and Renault at their top of their glory, most races were as fun as watching Paul's nail polish dry.

I don't want a tire war, as it detracts from a 'purer' car war. Pirelli seems to be, for one, a honest company, not favoring any team in particular as was the case with Bridgestone and Michelin. The attempts at connecting them with Lotus or Ferrari are based only in isolating the best cases and completely ignoring all the other cases where they were not benefited (Massa last race, anyone?)

It is true that the tires have too much impact, but that seems unavoidable, much to my chagrin. As for the tires themselves, at some races they seemed way too fragile, and at some others way too resistant. And that's expected!!!!! There is no mathematical formula to find the "sweet spot" between fragility and durability for the tires for each track! Its' a trial and error, and even then they cannot satisfy everyone as no matter how they behave, somebody will say they should behave the other way.

In short, even if I strongly opposed the idea of artificially crappy tires at first, I must recognize that they have done lots for the spectacle.

As for the drivers, they just need to develop their skills or built new ones to adapt. Same old story as always in F1. Nothing to see here.

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I understand your points people. Just my preference would be a lot of Tire WAR than a lot of Tire WEAR.

Would also help the eco system in minimizing tire garbage disposal

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Agree with Paul, James and the Andres.

I don't look forward to the day when Pirelli inevitably leave the sport, we get a new supplier with probably a different philosophy (i.e. to build super long lasting tyres) and the races are super boring again. No doubt then everybody will be complaining about how boring the races are and remembering the glory days of Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen and co battling for victories. Try to enjoy a golden era while you are in it.

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I haven't made my mind up yet. China did seem a bit extreme, but if it doesn't occur as a rule - well, last year I really liked Pirelli's way of doing things so I don't want to judge them now, while the teams have time to think of ways to adapt better.

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I think the tyres should have a pictures of clothed women on them, but as the tyre wears out they start losing their clothes until they become naked. More points will be gained for drivers that can lose the most clothes off the women. Obviously, nakedness is past the 'cliff face' threshold of the tyre and so only the truly brave drivers will get maximum points. Sutil can have pictures of men on his.

biggrin.png I like your style biggrin.png Could we work Emma Bunton in there somehow....?

Oh and custard.... smile.png

Edited by Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

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You mean good as degrades faster for more intence action like in China with Vettel at the end of the race?

It should't matter how good or bad they are as long as its the same for eveyone.

Also they recycle all of the F1 tyers.

Edited by jackgarrett

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I have always found it interesting that a tire supplier would want to be associated with the tire wear...

...but I am thankful that they do. The races are very fun to watch. It's another era, and to do what used to be done just won't work. The cars are limited for safety reasons, and the technology now present means that "wild" innovations don't happen (everyone converges on the same designs because there really aren't many ideal ways to do things, and no one can really individually discover things the way they used to with the amount of access to information and reliable simulation that's out there). It just wouldn't be as compelling of a product, especially without refueling. Racing's an interesting sport in that the teams and drivers are competing for something the fans don't want to see (pure dominance in a trouble-free, which includes never having to race side-by-side, fashion). You have to keep that goal in check, and they're no longer in their own ways because of advancements that have been made.

Yeah, you could allow some different things like they do at Le Mans, but if you want a mess, check out how they do "Balance of Performance" in sports car racing. Try not to get a headache as you sort through biweekly IMSA bulletins (that conflict with the similar ACO bulletins) and waivers.

I understand the wanting of pure competition. I really do. It sounds great in theory, in the same way that many could argue spec cars sound great in theory (theoretical lower costs, theoretical equal footing for drivers...if that's your thing, I mean...not mine...but...some like that). You do it in reality, though, and both turn out to be pretty boring and problematic (expensive on both ends of the spectrum, one for obvious reasons, and spec cars because suppliers pay fees for exclusivity that are then added to the selling price to teams). Plus, while it didn't happen so much in F1 to my knowledge, more than a few tire wars ended in big-time safety issues as the companies pushed a little too far (mostly oval racing, though).

The racing's exciting, I think. They are the fastest cars in the world doing this type of racing, and it is so amazing to watch how quickly they respond to the driver and take corners, especially as they run side-by-side or right behind each other. You just don't get to appreciate how great these machines are if they're running spread out, single-file, in a race decided in turn one. That, to me, would be a shame. So, I like the tires Pirelli brings, and I love Formula One in its 2012-2013 form.

Still, I respect the opposing view, and do understand where it comes from. It does sound weird if you reduce it all to, "well, I like to watch tires degrade on the weekends, and figure out where it all falls out based on pit stop lap time deltas." :P

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One thing for sure, I won't buy Pirellis for my cars. Indeed last year I had 20 inches Pirreli Neros on one of my Porches 996 and I replaced them after 1K km because of heavy vibrations and couldn't figure out why the wiggle in high speeds. loljump.gif

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Too many long posts to read them all, and my eyes are a bit blurry from driving Pukekohe on the simulator, but, here's my take:

I don't care that the tyres last but a handful of laps; it is the same for everyone, and an engineering riddle to overcome to make your car more compliant to them.

Watching the 2nd GP2 race, the commentators mentioned that the race was, well, dull...and for the most part, the middle 50% of the race was. All cars were running the hard tyres, so degradation was not really an issue (they are not allowed pitstops in the second race). So what happened was, five laps of guys fighting for a place, and then right up until the last seven laps, it was like watching a re-run of the Trulli Train from the early 00's.

Whilst two tyre companies in F1 would be good, it does lead them towards a tyre that will outlast the other, and thus harder and harder compounds are used. The cars get slower. The cars get more squirrelly on the track (hard compound being harder to heat up, rubber doesn't get pliable, tyre skids over the tarmac). Races become follow the leader affairs.

The amount of laps that the Pirellis will last is entirely dependent on the race track. The tracks in China, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and any other track that does not have racing on it consistently throughout the year (or summer months, whichever way you want to look at it), will always have more tyre wear than one where there is significant amounts of racing going on to rubber in the track, such as Spa, Nurburgring, Monza etc.

Just enjoy the fact that there is disparety in how each car uses its tyres, and how the really good drivers can manage them too. Unless they go to 24" wide rear tyres, then, let em race as they are. I'm enjoying it.

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One thing for sure, I won't buy Pirellis for my cars. Indeed last year I had 20 inches Pirreli Neros on one of my Porches 996 and I replaced them after 1K km because of heavy vibrations and couldn't figure out why the wiggle in high speeds. loljump.gif

Bearing....wheelnuts...thrown a tyre weight..steering rack bushes...using steel tyre valves (rubber are best)...it's a Porshe...

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Bearing....wheelnuts...thrown a tyre weight..steering rack bushes...using steel tyre valves (rubber are best)...it's a Porshe...

I changed to Dunlop MAXXGT and all is cool

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I think there's a bit of general hysteria concerning the tires. As usual, I watch now and then some full races from past seasons and I was watching the 2006 championship. Even with the sweet memories of Alonso and Renault at their top of their glory, most races were as fun as watching Paul's nail polish dry.

I don't want a tire war, as it detracts from a 'purer' car war. Pirelli seems to be, for one, a honest company, not favoring any team in particular as was the case with Bridgestone and Michelin. The attempts at connecting them with Lotus or Ferrari are based only in isolating the best cases and completely ignoring all the other cases where they were not benefited (Massa last race, anyone?)

It is true that the tires have too much impact, but that seems unavoidable, much to my chagrin. As for the tires themselves, at some races they seemed way too fragile, and at some others way too resistant. And that's expected!!!!! There is no mathematical formula to find the "sweet spot" between fragility and durability for the tires for each track! Its' a trial and error, and even then they cannot satisfy everyone as no matter how they behave, somebody will say they should behave the other way.

In short, even if I strongly opposed the idea of artificially crappy tires at first, I must recognize that they have done lots for the spectacle.

As for the drivers, they just need to develop their skills or built new ones to adapt. Same old story as always in F1. Nothing to see here.

That's not nail polish............

I agree to a point. It would be nice, though, after a driver has managed to look after his tyres in the initial phase, that he was then able to race at 100% capacity for a time rather than the 80% (Nando & Lewis' estimate) they seem to be now.

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biggrin.png I like your style biggrin.png Could we work Emma Bunton in there somehow....?

Oh and custard.... smile.png

Most definitely. A naked Emma Bunton in custard is fine with me.

I presume you have plenty of naked photos of baby spice.................................no wait, if you had, we would never see you on these forums dam.giflaugh.png

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Most definitely. A naked Emma Bunton in custard is fine with me.

I presume you have plenty of naked photos of baby spice.................................no wait, if you had, we would never see you on these forums dam.giflaugh.png

I like your imaginations. From tire wear to something someone wearing or not wearing. Can only come from imaginative ones.rolleyes.gif Edited by radical-one

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I like your imaginations. From tire wear to something someone wearing or not wearing. Can only come from imaginative ones.rolleyes.gif

Well, 'imaginitive ones', is probably the kindest description you could give me :lol:

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Well, 'imaginitive ones', is probably the kindest description you could give me laugh.png

That was my line!

:lol:

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I like your imaginations. From tire wear to something someone wearing or not wearing. Can only come from imaginative ones.rolleyes.gif

He has a lot of spare time in the corrective institution that he resides in... all they think about is naked women and rubber.... :D

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Most definitely. A naked Emma Bunton in custard is fine with me.

I presume you have plenty of naked photos of baby spice.................................no wait, if you had, we would never see you on these forums dam.giflaugh.png

Well I did go away for a while.... :o

Sadly no, dear Emma has remained clothed (not from lack of searching on my part! :D )

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I applaud Pirelli for doing what was asked of them. I still remember the borefests in the mid 2000s where even on softs, you could do an entire race on one set of tyres. I find it quick stupid that RBR (a team I support after Lotus) are having a go at Pirelli, when they seem to be doing just fine in winning races.

Bernie or whomever it was that asked Pirelli to create a degrading tyre should be thanked. It's working. Last year was fantastic, this year it's been great as well.

For me the key is, that there still does need to be more things in F1 that can go wrong in a non fatal way. What I mean by that is like having manual gearboxes and then having drivers miss a gear. It's just too perfect now where very little goes wrong. The pitstops are so short now too, so we don't see refueling rigs sticking either. The best we get is a wheelnut not going on really.

I'm pretty happy with F1 right now. I would and still want the rear wing widened back to how it was before these runts we call "wings" came in, and I hate how the front wings look. They are too wide, and the amount of winglets on them is absurb. Thew new regs that were brought in for 2009 banned all the winglets of the sidepods and all manner of atrocious aero pieces, but it just seems they are now all being put on the front wings. I am however happy with the rest of the cars looks from the clean sidepods to not having those horrible vane things that extended from the engine cover all the way back to the rear wing. So some improvements, but some negatives. Also I'm noticing teams are widening the side mirrors now too. Certainly not as bad as years past where they were out so wide they were utterly useless.

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Well I did go away for a while.... ohmy.png

Sadly no, dear Emma has remained clothed (not from lack of searching on my part! biggrin.png )

I guess that's why you know so much about corrective institutions :whistling:

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