Williams Retain Karthikeyan

[Jem of the Shire 0]

or running a mini go-kart track for under 10's at a seaside resort with co-owner Nicolas Kiesa

[goferrarigo 0]

If this thread reaches 10 pages I'm deleting it

NO NK thread as been finished unless it was locked and no one could be bothered to start a new one, So i would sugest locking not deleting will be better

[pumpdoc 2]

or running a mini go-kart track for under 10's at a seaside resort with co-owner Nicolas Kiesa

[bajo39 0]

On the ChampCar Panoz chassis, one thing the article mentions is that it survived the FIA 'Formula 1' crash tests. Twice. As a friend of mine put it, that chassis said "Hit me again, Spike, and this time put some stank into it!".

I expect Honda's advertising department will be in touch with them soon. Safe-gaurding their golden boy, Takuma Sato, is a top priority (and for the Takata Seat Belt Co too!)... Lord knows it needs to be.

It also incorporates the latest aero principles that have appeared in F1 lately. This means two things to me:

1) ChampCar (CART) is rising like a phoenix from it's own ashes and is proof positive that the series will be around for a while.

2) That Panoz may be gearing up to supply chassis for Formula 1 when the rules loosen in '08.....

All of this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, but who the hell cares....

I don't really care about Panoz coming to F1. To me, they belong in the US and that's where I would like to see them concentrate. That brings me back to your first point. Champ Car is indeed on the rise but why they continue to regulate slower cars than we see in F1 is beyond me. Why not turn up the horsepower, aero and tyre grip? I'd drop Formula 1 in a heartbeat if CCWS could produce a superior product.

[Autumnpuma 0]

If the 'superior product' is actual racing and overtaking outside of the pits, then one could argue ChampCar already has a superior product. Tech-wise they are getting there. I daresay they would be right there already, if not for Toyota, Penske and King George...

[mock 0]

If this thread reaches 10 pages I'm deleting it

Can we block any new threads on NK being posted ???

[cavallino 2]

.

[bajo39 0]

Can we block any new threads on NK being posted ???

Block the Indian's from starting new threads about their hero? That would be a crime...

[mock 0]

Block the Indian's from starting new threads about their hero? That would be a crime...

That's a very stupid attempt at a joke considering 95% of the threads on NK are started by you !!! Indeed it would be criminal to stop you from posting your usual bull.

[cavallino 2]

That's a very stupid attempt at a joke considering 95% of the threads on NK are started by you !!! Indeed it would be criminal to stop you from posting your usual bull.

Oh no he only wants to ban Indians from making the threads, so that the negative tone can be set from the outset by hIM.

[cavallino 2]

Now, I believe that we can first remove at least some undeserving pay drivers by educating their fans. For instance I have many Japanese friends (at uni) and they have all been shown just how bad SA's drivers are. Consequently they now agree that Honda shouldn't have caved in to popular pressure by setting up the team. If only all Japanese were similarly educated by a more dedicated F1 fan friend the team would soon disappear.

Did you educate your fellow Britishers about how Jenson Button is not the next big thing, how Anthony Davidson isn't driving for Honda because he isn't good enough, how Hill was rather fortunate to win the world championship, how their lovely idolized F1 teams use dodgy tactics as well as anyone else, how every British driver isn't a paragon of virtue, how Jackie Stewart needs to get out more? Every country has its delusional fans, how do you plan to change that? Again you pretend to take a stand based on principle, whereas in reality you are just taking a stand on one manifestation of the whole matter and blowing it out of proportion.

Removing all pay drivers is harder to do, but also less important because I don't care as much if Schumi wants to pay for instance, as long as he deserves the ride he's paying for. Nevertheless I would radically change F1 by removing all teams, or at least giving them standardised cars, which would solve the problem and have many other benefits. In the medium term all thats likely to happen is that costs can be reduced, which will hopefully lessen the need for pay drivers.

So you favour a move to a spec formula and think that will get rid of pay drivers? Ridiculous. If they can get the money they will have it.

Once and for all, I'm only picking on Karty and Sato because their fans refuse to accept our criticism

There is a difference between criticism based on analysis and by aruging your position, and pure random bashing. I have seen a lot of the latter and none of the former from you and others.

Which brings us to the most interesting issue. I'm kind of surprised that you say we can hate Karty purely for his skin colour and not be racist.

Ah the same old group all Indians together, take one random quote made by someone and bring it up again and again to detract from the discussion. The same pathetic tactic used by bajo a while ago, which is why I sometimes wonder whether you and bajo are the same person. Discuss what I said, I didn't claim to represent anyone.

Therefore I have been trying to understand where the 'car control' statement came from, since I did not see it myself.

Nowhere. bajo has never made a single attempt to justify his views with any analysis. The most ridiculous aspect of it is his teammate was guilty of more and worse rookie errors, and yet he is the one picked on.

The only aberrations I can remember where in China 2004 - slipping off on a straight cannot be attributed to anything except the car

Seems like you have begun to believe one of the myths, it's the old method of repeating a lie until people begin to accept it, used by bajo the liar. He didn't crash on a straight, he crashed on the final bend.

, and when he tried an overtake manouever on JV (Forget which race) in his Sauber,

Which was no worse than what Alonso did at Monza to Heidfeld, for example. All drivers screw up, Scott Speed has done it far more than NK ever did in his first season. Do you see any posts from those crusaders about him? They wouldn't want to p**s off their American friends would they?

[Max Mosley 2]

Did you educate your fellow Britishers about how Jenson Button is not the next big thing, how Anthony Davidson isn't driving for Honda because he isn't good enough, how Hill was rather fortunate to win the world championship, how their lovely idolized F1 teams use dodgy tactics as well as anyone else, how every British driver isn't a paragon of virtue, how Jackie Stewart needs to get out more? Every country has its delusional fans, how do you plan to change that? Again you pretend to take a stand based on principle, whereas in reality you are just taking a stand on one manifestation of the whole matter and blowing it out of proportion.

Respectively: no because JB is a good driver, yes AD has frequently felt my wrath, yes I've always said DH was one of the least deserving WDC's of recent years, no because I believe Ferrari are more dodgy but I do agree no one's perfect, no one has ever suggested such a thing, irrelevant. Through education. I would take a stand on every such issue. If everyone did the same eventually the deluded amongst us would learn. Don't expect me to rant about say Yamamoto though until some members praise him, as the Indians do Karty. Generally Brits seem better educated on F1.

This defense of yours, that I only care about Karty, is no defense at all. I could admit such a thing and still be correct in saying Karty is a stain on our beloved sport.

So you favour a move to a spec formula and think that will get rid of pay drivers? Ridiculous. If they can get the money they will have it.

I don't know who "they" refers to as I suggested getting rid of the teams altogether. Even if we didn't go that far though, giving teams standardised technology at minimal cost would still place more emphasis on the drivers and hence reduce the allure of pay drivers.

There is a difference between criticism based on analysis and by aruging your position, and pure random bashing. I have seen a lot of the latter and none of the former from you and others.

All we are saying is that he shouldn't be in F1. Its a widely accepted belief outside of India. You really seem ridiculous debating it. Dan in particular and Senna before him have given all the analysis needed to justify the belief.

Ah the same old group all Indians together, take one random quote made by someone and bring it up again and again to detract from the discussion. The same pathetic tactic used by bajo and autumnpuma a while ago, which is why I sometimes wonder whether you and bajo are the same person. Discuss what I said, I didn't claim to represent anyone.

Glad to see you agree we've not said anything racist. Perhaps you would like to tell your fellow Indians because we regularly get called racist by plently of them. Frankly I always thought you said that too.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Cav, your arguments are patheticaly biased to the point of leaving out pertinent information. When someone, like me, calls you on that, you deflect the argument into a different area. We all have our 'methods' of communication, and your's is just as suspect as mine, Murray's or Bajo's.

You're turning into an angry git. I'm sorry to tell you that the dour, angry attitude is already taken by ykick. Please find another angle....

[goferrarigo 0]

Respectively: no because JB is a good driver, yes AD has frequently felt my wrath, yes I've always said DH was one of the least deserving WDC's of recent years, no because I believe Ferrari are more dodgy but I do agree no one's perfect, no one has ever suggested such a thing, irrelevant. Through education. I would take a stand on every such issue. If everyone did the same eventually the deluded amongst us would learn. Don't expect me to rant about say Yamamoto though until some members praise him, as the Indians do Karty. Generally Brits seem better educated on F1.

This defense of yours, that I only care about Karty, is no defense at all. I could admit such a thing and still be correct in saying Karty is a stain on our beloved sport.

I don't know who "they" refers to as I suggested getting rid of the teams altogether. Even if we didn't go that far though, giving teams standardised technology at minimal cost would still place more emphasis on the drivers and hence reduce the allure of pay drivers.

how much standardized tech are you willing to be given to the team. there will allways be some team with money problems. All teams can't be a ferrari, some are better at development(cost-effective) than others. S o there will allways be a need for money in f1. And as there is a need for money pay drivers will suely come in.

In reply to your stain comment. I think most people don't mind having NK in the sport. i am sure if youdid a poll it would be mostly dontknow/don't care. only u, bajo and mike care about it soo much. he is a freakin test driver how does it matter? get over it.

[Max Mosley 2]

I would abolish teams entirely if I could. Otherwise, clearly I would like to give them as much standardised stuff as possible. Of course there would then still be some money issues but potentially far fewer than there are now.

Apathy is the evil of our time, as Dan has already explained. No doubt most couldn't care less but then many don't bother to vote either. It hardly makes it right.

[goferrarigo 0]

I would abolish teams entirely if I could. Otherwise, clearly I would like to give them as much standardised stuff as possible. Of course there would then still be some money issues but potentially far fewer than there are now.

Apathy is the evil of our time, as Dan has already explained. No doubt most couldn't care less but then many don't bother to vote either. It hardly makes it right.

I actually feel pay teams are good it gives a good judgement about a driver. Drivers should not start at big teams as they do not get expericence. I don't like SA as they dont have a good enoug car to compete with anyone except moneterio & roseberg to some extent is a pay driver he is using his fathers name to get into williams, he should have started of with some lower team.

Apathy is evil i agree.but you should fight for more rightous causes like no dictatorship in the world(hint:pakistan, North korea) or for no poverty , not for a guy who is paying to test. There are far more importent things in life than f1 or pay drivers in f1. after all f1 is an entertainment show dont forget that.

[cavallino 2]

Respectively: no because JB is a good driver, yes AD has frequently felt my wrath, yes I've always said DH was one of the least deserving WDC's of recent years, no because I believe Ferrari are more dodgy but I do agree no one's perfect, no one has ever suggested such a thing, irrelevant. Through education. I would take a stand on every such issue. If everyone did the same eventually the deluded amongst us would learn. Don't expect me to rant about say Yamamoto though until some members praise him, as the Indians do Karty. Generally Brits seem better educated on F1.

Informed yes, the educated part is debatable. Just because your media covers the sport might mean that you know who won the championship in 1984, it doesn't really mean you'll be better educated when it comes to judging drivers.

This defense of yours, that I only care about Karty, is no defense at all. I could admit such a thing and still be correct in saying Karty is a stain on our beloved sport.

No sir, if you insist that the 6 pay drivers on the grid today are a stain on your beloved sport ( a statement you have implied yet never explicitly used interesting enough), you'd be awfully worried about the sport, and really, there would be no point in following a sport you have such grave misgivings about. If one fourth of your cricket team or one fourth of your football team consisted of rich oyung men paying for their spot, you would avoid the sport. So you obviously apply different principles for this sport, and to pretend that in a sport where more than a fourth of the grid consists of pay drivers, you only consider a test driver to be a stain on the sport, you are either gravely prejudiced and have an agenda to push, or you are merely posting to provoke reactions.

I don't know who "they" refers to as I suggested getting rid of the teams altogether. Even if we didn't go that far though, giving teams standardised technology at minimal cost would still place more emphasis on the drivers and hence reduce the allure of pay drivers.

Motorsport still ain't cheap. You have what you are asking for already, it's called GP2. And most seats in that have to be bought. So that's not going to fix the problem.

All we are saying is that he shouldn't be in F1. Its a widely accepted belief outside of India. You really seem ridiculous debating it.

Don't delude yourself, and don't try to delude others, that is not what the debate is about. I have never denied that NK is no more and no less deserving of a drive than the pay drivers on the grid this year. An you seem quite ridiculous debating the one driver who isn't on the grid rather than the 6 who are, and should not be going by your principles. Nor do you have a viable proposal about how you are going to expand the talent pool for F1, because otherwise, even if you eliminate the pay drivers (another thing that you don't have a viable plan for), the source of drivers in F1 is going to be a few thousand, maybe a hundred thousand rich mostly first world young men. That fact is of course not going to bother your concience if only NK was not in the sport. Nor will the 6 other pay drivers on the grid, since you have no complaints about them.

Dan in particular and Senna before him have given all the analysis needed to justify the belief.

They haven't given nothing, except lies and damned lies.

Glad to see you agree we've not said anything racist. Perhaps you would like to tell your fellow Indians because we regularly get called racist by plently of them. Frankly I always thought you said that too.

Perhaps you would like to tell your fellow earthlings who bother you yourself, why have I been appointed for that task?

I don't remember calling you a racist, I certainly remember calling Senna one when he echoed a pro-colonial viewpoint - that comes under my definition of racism, if you support colonialism (even with caveats like that is how the world worked at that time), you are a racist. So I don't remember if you were or were not involved then.

Cav, your arguments are patheticaly biased to the point of leaving out pertinent information. When someone, like me, calls you on that, you deflect the argument into a different area. We all have our 'methods' of communication, and your's is just as suspect as mine, Murray's or Bajo's.

You're turning into an angry git. I'm sorry to tell you that the dour, angry attitude is already taken by ykick. Please find another angle....

You really don't give up do you, this must be about the fifth time when you've first said that you are going to ignore my posts and them have come back with juvenile personal insults. I lost what little respect I had for you a long time ago, I don't give a damn what you think of me, so grow up and shut up if you don't want to discuss the topic. As a Scott Speed supporter, you don't have a leg to stand on anyway.

[pumpdoc 2]

Keep it up, get this topic to 10 pages so it can dissapear

[cavallino 2]

Don't you dare

[pumpdoc 2]

Don't you dare

[Autumnpuma 0]

You really don't give up do you, this must be about the fifth time when you've first said that you are going to ignore my posts and them have come back with juvenile personal insults. I lost what little respect I had for you a long time ago, I don't give a damn what you think of me, so grow up and shut up if you don't want to discuss the topic. As a Scott Speed supporter, you don't have a leg to stand on anyway.

You mentioned me, and my arguments, a few post above so you got a response. If you don't want me to respond, then refrain from mentioning me. It's a simple concept.

It's a true measure of your ability to grasp what you read that you think I support Scott Speed...hardly...and if you'd bother to read my posts, all I say about him is that I forgive his rookie mistakes (as I do Rosberg's and indeed Narain's).

I offered a peaceful co-existence with you on this forum. You snubbed that. I will refrain from responding to your posts, but bring me up again and you'll get the same hostility you got in this thread. Fair warning.

EDIT: Also, in a few threads I actually complimented you so your statement about me hurling insults is incorrect. Further proof that your memory is selective.

[pumpdoc 2]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^and with that we are at 10 pages of worthless drivel over a sub-par driver

(and no, I'm not deleting it, t'was just a joke)

[Autumnpuma 0]

(and no, I'm not deleting it, t'was just a joke)

It was?

[pumpdoc 2]

It was?

wink, wink, nod nod, nudge nudge

[Autumnpuma 0]

wink, wink, nod nod, nudge nudge