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Silas Talbot

Mclaren Stealing Ferrari Secrets?

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Some people say that McLaren has not been able to apply 2007 Ferrari solutions to his own car. They suggest McLaren could apply those 2007 Ferrari solutions to 2008 McLaren car. They think we all the rest have poor F1 knowledge. God!

You have a poor knowledge of F1. Sorry to break it to you so harshly, but my patience has run out.

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Some people say that McLaren has not been able to apply 2007 Ferrari solutions to his own car. They suggest McLaren could apply those 2007 Ferrari solutions to 2008 McLaren car. They think we all the rest have poor F1 knowledge. God!

:confused2:

:stinker4kz:

:yawn:

goodnight and sweetdreams guys!

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You have a poor knowledge of F1.

I might not be an F1 expert but all you have said is rubbish.

And just for the rest... Do not believe those w#nkers that say it is not possible to apply Ferrari solutions to McLaren car because it is completely possible. It is an engineering problem that can be solved in very little time by a HIGHLY competitive team like the brit.

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And now it appears that Nick "shark eyes" Fry met with both of the men involved in this sorry affair. Now that, to me, begins to make some sort of sense. Any rabid comments?

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I might not be an F1 expert but all you have said is rubbish.

All of it? Really? Wow. Quite an accomplishment for me. Usually I'm spot-on.

And now it appears that Nick "shark eyes" Fry met with both of the men involved in this sorry affair. Now that, to me, begins to make some sort of sense. Any rabid comments?

Hmm...I read that too. It seems Stepney wasn't already employed by McLaren. This puts McLaren in a better light as the likely scenario is that Stepney gave Coughlan the package with the intent to familiarize him with the Ferrari info and then both of them would seek employment at Honda....both now having Ferrari knowledge. This would seem to point to the info not making it into McLaren F1 at all. Good news for Ron and it explains why he was so confident McLaren would be cleared.

I wonder if Shark Eyes would have employed them?

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Possibly true but it the package was given to Coughlan in April..that is far too late to benefit the current car. I'm sorry to be so frank about this, but anyone who believes that parts can be taken from this year's Ferrari and put on this year's McLaren and see an immediate benefit would be woefully lacking in F1 knowledge.

Rubbish... to be more specific.

And that's not F1 but engineering.

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Hmm...I read that too. It seems Stepney wasn't already employed by McLaren. This puts McLaren in a better light as the likely scenario is that Stepney gave Coughlan the package with the intent to familiarize him with the Ferrari info and then both of them would seek employment at Honda....both now having Ferrari knowledge. This would seem to point to the info not making it into McLaren F1 at all. Good news for Ron and it explains why he was so confident McLaren would be cleared.

I wonder if Shark Eyes would have employed them?

That's my take on things. What better way of getting a senior position at Brackley?

And Mike, everything you say is rubbish. I read it on the internet. ^_^

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That's my take on things. What better way of getting a senior position at Brackley?

And Mike, everything you say is rubbish. I read it on the internet. ^_^

:lol:

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And now it appears that Nick "shark eyes" Fry met with both of the men involved in this sorry affair. Now that, to me, begins to make some sort of sense. Any rabid comments?

Jaws 4 is going to be so much better.

:lol:

No, don't laugh. You really do talk rubbish. I was almost finding you interesting until our enlightened member brought your shortcomings to my attention.

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No, don't laugh. You really do talk rubbish. I was almost finding you interesting until our enlightened member brought your shortcomings to my attention.

How would your member, enlightened or no, have any clue if my comings were short? I am a bit concerned that you refer to it in the royal plural 'our member'....disturbing to say the least!

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They could have been using the designs in a way to hurt Ferrari's speed instead of increase theirs. Maybe design their car to have air exit in a way that is specifically designed to hurt the Ferrari so if the Mclaren does happen to be in front the Ferrari can't follow close enough to fight for position.

On that note I have just had an incredible idea. One of the drivers should carry a stick with him while driving and whenever a car tries to pass him he can just reach over and hit the neutral button. Now that would be a race.

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I might not be an F1 expert but all you have said is rubbish.

And just for the rest... Do not believe those w#nkers that say it is not possible to apply Ferrari solutions to McLaren car because it is completely possible. It is an engineering problem that can be solved in very little time by a HIGHLY competitive team like the brit.

Try to understand it this way. It is like a married man watching his neighbour's wife's nude pics and cant do anything about it other than be happy with his wife.

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Talk 'silent agreements' all you want, but ownership is ownership and the F1 teams' designs are owned by the team, or by the corporation that owns the team. Period.

Not necessarily. It is possible to make agreements, where those ownerships are forwarded to other partners. I am an ipr lawyer by profession, so at least I SHOULD know about this issue... :blush:

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McLaren F1 has made available to the FIA all it's design and update drawings detailing each change to the car since April. As long as no part designed by Ferrari is on that car, there is no infraction of the rules. Talk design philosophy all you want, but the rules are clear: no part designed by another team can be on a competitor's car. Going deeper into design philosophy, when a person leaves one team and is employed by another team, he is taking the former team's design philosophy to the new team. That is legal. Using a copyrighted part owned by another team is not legal.

IPR doesn't mean only car parts, but also technical solutions included into designs. So, if those solutions (they can be also called 'inventions') are included into rival car, that is ipr infringement as well. And when a person leaves into other team, he certainly can't take those inventions with him. There is also special law against that kind of activity. If any additional agreements are not made, law says that worker is not allowed to talk about those inventions during the period of 2 years. But normally companies make special agreements, where that time period is continued for lifetime. (this is the law in europe, but also in USA there are quite similar methods).

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Maybe what I am going to say will sound completely idiotic but: why did they went through all the cumbersone "lets-meet-in-some-deserted-place-so-I-can-give-you-a-suspicious-package-with-hundreds-of-pages-you-must-photocopy"? Don't they have a digital copy of those things? Is it all hand drawn? Wouldn't it have been easier to handle him just a CD or send an e-mail?

That seems very weird to me aswell Andres, if your going to do something naughty, make plans so you have only a small chance of being caught. I mean couldn't MC have kept the documents in another location. That would be common sense, but like the saying goes common sense aint that common.

Try to understand it this way. It is like a married man watching his neighbour's wife's nude pics and cant do anything about it other than be happy with his wife.

Good explanation abbas, I like it :thbup:

McLaren would use the information to gather reasons why and how some designs work on the Ferrari, not to design a copy cat Ferrari. This talk of the performance gains of McLaren being directly attributed to the leaked documents are silly.

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QUOTE(Quiet One @ Jul 6 2007, 05:03 AM) post_snapback.gif

Maybe what I am going to say will sound completely idiotic but: why did they went through all the cumbersone "lets-meet-in-some-deserted-place-so-I-can-give-you-a-suspicious-package-with-hundreds-of-pages-you-must-photocopy"? Don't they have a digital copy of those things? Is it all hand drawn? Wouldn't it have been easier to handle him just a CD or send an e-mail?

Maybe email/computer use would leave a too easily traced trail?

But having said that a paper trail is just as damning.

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That would be common sense, but like the saying goes common sense aint that common.

Good explanation abbas, I like it :thbup:

McLaren would use the information to gather reasons why and how some designs work on the Ferrari, not to design a copy cat Ferrari. This talk of the performance gains of McLaren being directly attributed to the leaked documents are silly.

Yep....especially in this forum, when we try to explain something they would just jump on us. It is ok if they disagree..But there are guys who don't make a fool of themselves. It would be so unfair to mention names

Ho...about the neighbour's pics! :P Lengths I have to go for explaining some facts to growing kids! ;) (kid= the guy to whom I was originally replying to! :D )

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Not necessarily. It is possible to make agreements, where those ownerships are forwarded to other partners. I am an ipr lawyer by profession, so at least I SHOULD know about this issue... :blush:
IPR doesn't mean only car parts, but also technical solutions included into designs. So, if those solutions (they can be also called 'inventions') are included into rival car, that is ipr infringement as well. And when a person leaves into other team, he certainly can't take those inventions with him. There is also special law against that kind of activity. If any additional agreements are not made, law says that worker is not allowed to talk about those inventions during the period of 2 years. But normally companies make special agreements, where that time period is continued for lifetime. (this is the law in europe, but also in USA there are quite similar methods).

I bow to your knowledge of the subject. Ron Dennis, in the Thursday press conference mentioned just this thing when he said that it can't be policed and that it's simply racing. Abbas summed it up pretty well. What the FIA is concerned with is whether or not an actual Ferrari-designed and owned part is on the McLaren. That's all the rules stipulate. The rest of it is irrelevant.

In all likelyhood, Coughlan and Stepney were gunning for a Honda position, so it wouldn't have served Coughlan to include anything on the McLaren.....considering he was likely going to be employed by a rival [Honda]. As I said before, McLaren are clean.

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Steve Matchett's rant about this in Friday practice sums up what I think about this issue. The teams are supposed to do their OWN work, and taking drawings like this just undercuts the entire engineering challenge that is formula one.

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IPR doesn't mean only car parts, but also technical solutions included into designs. So, if those solutions (they can be also called 'inventions') are included into rival car, that is ipr infringement as well. And when a person leaves into other team, he certainly can't take those inventions with him. There is also special law against that kind of activity. If any additional agreements are not made, law says that worker is not allowed to talk about those inventions during the period of 2 years. But normally companies make special agreements, where that time period is continued for lifetime. (this is the law in europe, but also in USA there are quite similar methods).

interesting, i thought that the non-compete clauses in contracts were the primary protection for teams. however what is in your head is your own intellectual property. seems absurd to me that a solution to a problem can be considered the ipr of a legal entity...that is why you are the lawyer and i am not! :lol:

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Rubbish... to be more specific.

And that's not F1 but engineering.

We're talking here about different chassis (MP4-22 vs. F2007), witch implies a lot. Differences in wheelbase lenght, weight distributions, structural rigidity, flexibility, chassis-suspension-tires interaction and optimization, etcetera...

A chassis has a set of limits, and would not be able to support everything just slapped on to it.

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A chassis has a set of limits, and would not be able to support everything just slapped on to it.

Come on!

They are not so stupid in McLaren to copy-paste all that Ferrari solutions to their cars. Engineers have to analyze those documents and find out how to apply those solutions to their cars. Then go to test it, back again to desing/developing... That's the way it always work but it can be much easier to find solutions for your cars when you have Ferrari documents with their solutions.

I am not saying they did it at McLaren but people coming here and saying it is not possible for McLaren to use that documents in their own benefit make me laugh. They should share all the documentation in F1, it is useless for the others anyway... Ha ha ha! There are many ways you can benefit from those documents and the obvious copy-paste is the obviously impossible to achieve.

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