Oz Gp Race Thread.

[HandyNZL 1]

I don't see what's so tough for people to understand about the safety car. Last year everybody was complaining that the safety car unfairly penalised drivers nearing the end of their pitstop window, since they couldn't enter the pits (or in this year's regulations, out of the pits). Nakajima crashed off the racing line so Charlie could afford to wait a couple of laps. All the teams knew the safety car would come out, so they all pitted. For the final safety car it didn't matter since everybody had pitted already.

Tedious xenophobic ranting and childish conspiracy theories aside, would it have been fairer if the safety car had come out immediately? Why should Button be penalised for Nakajima's mistake? He already lost the lead he'd built up. Safety cars are inevitably going to cause problems, particuarly at Albert Park. Charlie's just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I really can't bear another season of self-satisfied prats and their mutual back-slapping about how clever they are to have realised that everything's fixed just because their favourite driver didn't win. Mine didn't either- get over it. If you don't like it go and watch a nice fair sport like greyhound racing.

Oli for President!!!!

[AleHop 0]

Monza gorilla has given up on F1 and, perhaps, we will all be better off if we did just like him.

[bANANA_RACING]He Charlie Whiting.[/bANANA_RACING]

So, yeah. Giving up on F1 appears to be the best option. Who cares if one team is allowed what others are forbidden? Who cares if some drivers get away with things that other drivers get penalized for? Better not pay attention to those things. Instead, let's just see cars go around the track following the script and be done with it, that is, let's enjoy what we are allowed to enjoy.

I'll watch Sepang. It's one of my favourite tracks and is definetly the best of the new ones. It has a bit of everything and is a good test for the rest of the season. I hate to admit it, but Ecclestone and the FIA are clever enough to understand they cannot afford having to go through a whole season like that. And they are greedy enough to want another Championship decided in the last race.

We can expect a complaint if any other team or driver are leading and they deploy the SC agains their interests. Montezemolo would set fire to the FIA with all the clowns inside if that happened to them.

It's about time there was a bit of a shake up in F1 to make the 'top' teams sit up and think.

I enjoyed the podium ceremony and I agree on that.

Good race. Good outcome.

Your reasoning has been done the other way round.

The SC situation was odd, however I remember other races when it has taken an age to get the SC out. FIA do not help the conspiracy theorists by the timing <slaps head>.

We'll have more SCs during the season and I only expect they'll always apply that same new rule. Before deploying the SC, they must wait for the leader to pit and exit the pit lane.

I don't see what's so tough for people to understand about the safety car. Last year everybody was complaining that the safety car unfairly penalised drivers nearing the end of their pitstop window, since they couldn't enter the pits (or in this year's regulations, out of the pits). Nakajima crashed off the racing line so Charlie could afford to wait a couple of laps. All the teams knew the safety car would come out, so they all pitted. For the final safety car it didn't matter since everybody had pitted already.

Tedious xenophobic ranting and childish conspiracy theories aside, would it have been fairer if the safety car had come out immediately? Why should Button be penalised for Nakajima's mistake? He already lost the lead he'd built up. Safety cars are inevitably going to cause problems, particuarly at Albert Park. Charlie's just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I really can't bear another season of self-satisfied prats and their mutual back-slapping about how clever they are to have realised that everything's fixed just because their favourite driver didn't win. Mine didn't either- get over it. If you don't like it go and watch a nice fair sport like greyhound racing.

You forgot to wake the gorilla up when you wrote the bold part. And you, like Charlie, probably missed all the debris on the racing line next to Nakajima's car which had ended on the asphalt. I thought the SAFETY CAR was called SAFETY CAR for some reason.

Oh, sorry. It was my fault, I have to believe that the SC would not have been deployed instantly if Nakajima had been leading. We'll see. Oh, I hate Button, Brawn, BGP... and I didn't even know it. So SCs have been messing up races everywhere since 1994 but apparently we have a new rule now.

If you can't bear another season... Banana racing.

[Jean Todt 4]

F**k me what a race! Fantastic result for BGP & Jenson Button, defo driver of the day! Just heard Trulli got penalised for overtaking Hamilton while race was under yellows so not the best weekend for Toyota & well done Lewis for starting from the back of the grid to 3rd, Trulli did good aswell but did'nt see him at all! Brilliant drive ny Nico, the best I've seen him, pity it did'nt go as planned!

As for the crash towards the end, Kubica, what an idiot!! He gave Vettel no room at all & did'nt need to as I'm sure he would've passed Vettel a little after that corner & supposedly, Vettel gets penalised for the next race ! Anywhay what a race a no ads breaks !!!

Delighted again for Button & can't stop thinking what Ben & jem feel like as I'm sure he'll be a WDC contender but we'll see cos it's only the 1st race!

Danny boy!

It was Vettel's fault!

[Jean Todt 4]

I don't see what's so tough for people to understand about the safety car. Last year everybody was complaining that the safety car unfairly penalised drivers nearing the end of their pitstop window, since they couldn't enter the pits (or in this year's regulations, out of the pits). Nakajima crashed off the racing line so Charlie could afford to wait a couple of laps. All the teams knew the safety car would come out, so they all pitted. For the final safety car it didn't matter since everybody had pitted already.

Tedious xenophobic ranting and childish conspiracy theories aside, would it have been fairer if the safety car had come out immediately? Why should Button be penalised for Nakajima's mistake? He already lost the lead he'd built up. Safety cars are inevitably going to cause problems, particuarly at Albert Park. Charlie's just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I really can't bear another season of self-satisfied prats and their mutual back-slapping about how clever they are to have realised that everything's fixed just because their favourite driver didn't win. Mine didn't either- get over it. If you don't like it go and watch a nice fair sport like greyhound racing.

well said Oli!

[Piotr 0]

F**k me what a race! Fantastic result for BGP & Jenson Button, defo driver of the day! Just heard Trulli got penalised for overtaking Hamilton while race was under yellows so not the best weekend for Toyota & well done Lewis for starting from the back of the grid to 3rd, Trulli did good aswell but did'nt see him at all! Brilliant drive ny Nico, the best I've seen him, pity it did'nt go as planned!

As for the crash towards the end, Kubica, what an idiot!! He gave Vettel no room at all & did'nt need to as I'm sure he would've passed Vettel a little after that corner & supposedly, Vettel gets penalised for the next race ! Anywhay what a race a no ads breaks !!!

Delighted again for Button & can't stop thinking what Ben & jem feel like as I'm sure he'll be a WDC contender but we'll see cos it's only the 1st race!

Well, Vettel seems to disagree with you. So did the stewards. so is just about everybody else. You are either being irrational, or did not really see the accident. BUT, I will say this looked like a racing accident to me (my sentiments notwithstanding...).

[Piotr 0]

Thankyou Vettel!

Just kidding Piotr......was sad to see Kubica walking away.

Glad I could provided a comic relief for you...

[Piotr 0]

Vettel did admit to liability for it, he summed it up quite well 'a stupid racing incident'.

Yep, I'm not convinced by KERS yet either.

Agreed. Glad you took my rant well...

[Oli 1]

Well, Vettel seems to disagree with you. So did the stewards. so is just about everybody else. You are either being irrational, or did not really see the accident. BUT, I will say this looked like a racing accident to me (my sentiments notwithstanding...).

Absolutely! It was clearly Vettel's fault, but I don't think he should have been penalised quite so harshly. This is the sort of incident that I wish the stewards wouldn't get involved with quite so much- it is as you say a racing incident. Ten places is harsh.

[Jean Todt 4]

Piotr, I hope you didn't take it personal.

[B.P. 0]

So your calling Sebastian Vettel (a guy who completely thrashed his highly rated team mate today and kept with Button who had a faster car and out qualified his team mate by 7 places and possibly one of this years championship contenders) a clown?

How can you trash someone when you don't even finish?

[maure 1]

I don't see what's so tough for people to understand about the safety car. Last year everybody was complaining that the safety car unfairly penalised drivers nearing the end of their pitstop window, since they couldn't enter the pits (or in this year's regulations, out of the pits). Nakajima crashed off the racing line so Charlie could afford to wait a couple of laps. All the teams knew the safety car would come out, so they all pitted. For the final safety car it didn't matter since everybody had pitted already.

Tedious xenophobic ranting and childish conspiracy theories aside, would it have been fairer if the safety car had come out immediately? Why should Button be penalised for Nakajima's mistake? He already lost the lead he'd built up. Safety cars are inevitably going to cause problems, particuarly at Albert Park. Charlie's just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I really can't bear another season of self-satisfied prats and their mutual back-slapping about how clever they are to have realised that everything's fixed just because their favourite driver didn't win. Mine didn't either- get over it. If you don't like it go and watch a nice fair sport like greyhound racing.

So you claim that F1 is not a "fair sport" even though your rant was meant to prove to yourself that it was...

We'll have more SCs during the season and I only expect they'll always apply that same new rule. Before deploying the SC, they must wait for the leader to pit and exit the pit lane.

You forgot to wake the gorilla up when you wrote the bold part. And you, like Charlie, probably missed all the debris on the racing line next to Nakajima's car which had ended on the asphalt. I thought the SAFETY CAR was called SAFETY CAR for some reason.

Oh, sorry. It was my fault, I have to believe that the SC would not have been deployed instantly if Nakajima had been leading. We'll see. Oh, I hate Button, Brawn, BGP... and I didn't even know it. So SCs have been messing up races everywhere since 1994 but apparently we have a new rule now.

It's all about suspension of belief. F1 is just a TV show... and, as with all TV shows, there are people that actually believe MacGyver is a real man that can build a time machine with paper clips and gorilla snot. These same people will love/hate their favourite fictional characters with whom, they will make themselves believe, they have personal relationships.

Happy endings. That's all the crowd wants.

[AleHop 0]

So you claim that F1 is not a "fair sport" even though your rant was meant to prove to yourself that it was...

Actually what Whiting did yesterday with the 1st safety car was probably fairer, but it wasn't a good precedent. In many cases he won't be able to do it even if the leader is going to pit half a lap after the accident and he should be equally concerned about the 2nd, 3rd... Unfortunately a SC is always going to damage somebody's race.

[maure 1]

Actually what Whiting did yesterday with the 1st safety car was probably fairer, but it wasn't a good precedent. In many cases he won't be able to do it even if the leader is going to pit half a lap after the accident and he should be equally concerned about the 2nd, 3rd... Unfortunately a SC is always going to damage somebody's race.

Not always... and, of course, fair for whom?

But it is groovy to see that, regarding the role of the SC, safety has become subservient to "fairness"... what a plot twist!

[5P33D3V1L 0]

How can you trash someone when you don't even finish?

Well Webber finished 13th one place ahead of Vettel and Webber finished. Vettel was 2nd practically the whole race. I would say Vettel did a great job up until the racing incident. Webber was pretty bad all race even after the first lap chaos.

But yes he should of finished.

I know who Id prefer to have in my team.

[B.P. 0]

Yep Vettel had a great race and made a silly mistake. Webs race was compromised from the first corner. Apparently his car was struggling for the rest of the race.

Anyway each to there own.

[freaky2 1]

We have 16 more races to judge Webber and Vettel, let's wait a bit shall we?

[maure 1]

It was just a race incident. Kubica didn't leave much room and Vettel defended a position that was lost. The outcome was just one of many. Bad luck.

Both have proven themselves in the past and did so again on this race and with flying colors. Unless the screenwriters decide to write them off the show (a Toyota-like move), they will be up there.

[Max Mosley 2]

Bad driving, more like.

[Medilloni 6]

Vettel apologised, but I'm confused as to why.

If he knows he could have backed out and avoided contact then fair enough, he might feel he should have relinquished the place (but fcuk knows why, it's up to the person behind to drive past, not 'through'!), but if he was carrying so much speed that he understeered into Kubica, then it's a racing accident - Kubica was trying the slightly more 'unconventional' route round the outside, and whilst still alongside (presumably knowing Vettel was there?), why wouldn't he give him a good car's width (the in-car shot shows he gave about half that)? If he could have carried the speed from there, he'd be on the inside of the immediate left hand kink and should have been long gone after that (in view of the grip Vettel didn't have).

Too much bollocking penalising again. And, dammit, where has the unwritten rule gone that says unless you're halfway (or more) past the guy before the apex, and still gaining space, then you should go for it, any less and you're going to have an accident.

It's not that long since they were both in Karts, they don't have mirrors, so 'being unsighted' isn't a good excuse - definately not a 'thinking' pass (that Rosberg is damn good, at for example) just a reliance that he thought Vettel could disappear. I rate them both very highly, but Robert's move was a few notches above 'optimistic'.

Meds verdict: Kubica's fault 100%. Penalty: Must repair the car himself.

[monza gorilla 1]

At last! Something worth waking up for.

It occurs to me that, if Bob had backed off, then the flowerpot man would have just outbraked himself into the greenery anyway. My hindsight is 20/20 in situations like these..... The gorilla verdict: they should both be sent to the headmaster with no scones for tea. Or, it was just one of those things you get when two racers refuse to give up. And Vettel shouldn't have owned up. Wimp.

[Medilloni 6]

At last! Something worth waking up for.

It occurs to me that, if Bob had backed off, then the flowerpot man would have just outbraked himself into the greenery anyway. My hindsight is 20/20 in situations like these..... The gorilla verdict: they should both be sent to the headmaster with no scones for tea. Or, it was just one of those things you get when two racers refuse to give up. And Vettel shouldn't have owned up. Wimp.

The whole thing was a 'heat of the moment' thing Russ, can't blame them in such a manic sport (unless they make it a habit!), but shouldn't be handing out these stupid fines willy-nilly either.

Vettel is a natural nice guy and I think his apology (on the radio and afterwards) was a knee-jerk reaction - nobody that loves their sport likes to fcuk up another's race unfairly. I'd like Robert to be asked, "where did you think Vettel would be as you turned in?".

Sheesh, us armchair experts should run the FIA

[maure 1]

Vettel apologised, but I'm confused as to why.

If he knows he could have backed out and avoided contact then fair enough, he might feel he should have relinquished the place (but fcuk knows why, it's up to the person behind to drive past, not 'through'!), but if he was carrying so much speed that he understeered into Kubica, then it's a racing accident - Kubica was trying the slightly more 'unconventional' route round the outside, and whilst still alongside (presumably knowing Vettel was there?), why wouldn't he give him a good car's width (the in-car shot shows he gave about half that)? If he could have carried the speed from there, he'd be on the inside of the immediate left hand kink and should have been long gone after that (in view of the grip Vettel didn't have).

Too much bollocking penalising again. And, dammit, where has the unwritten rule gone that says unless you're halfway (or more) past the guy before the apex, and still gaining space, then you should go for it, any less and you're going to have an accident.

It's not that long since they were both in Karts, they don't have mirrors, so 'being unsighted' isn't a good excuse - definately not a 'thinking' pass (that Rosberg is damn good, at for example) just a reliance that he thought Vettel could disappear. I rate them both very highly, but Robert's move was a few notches above 'optimistic'.

Meds verdict: Kubica's fault 100%. Penalty: Must repair the car himself.

True.

But I think it's harsh to blame Kubica when many drivers have done the same in the past (leave little or no room) and have been allowed to get away with it. Some, like Murray, have even cheered (different drivers doing it, of course).

If it's allowed for some, it's allowed for all. (yes, I'm cracking up).

[Medilloni 6]

But I think it's harsh to blame Kubica when many drivers have done the same in the past (leave little or no room) and have been allowed to get away with it.

Words such as 'blame' and 'fault' are harsh, and unfortunate (I should have used others!), motor racing is a sport that will see contact through mistakes, end of story. In this one incident I think Kubica was the instigator, in the past he's proven to be damn good at passing, but I'd not class him as a bad driver.

If we had the same, reliable stewards at each race, maybe having 'a word' with drivers when they make a c#ck-up, then a bollocking at the next race if it happens again, then a penalty 'cos they were persistent offenders, then fair enough - but all that's happening with the present system is creating an atmosphere where *drivers could be nervous about making a pass, and having too much caution causes accidents...

Some, like Murray, have even cheered (different drivers doing it, of course)

When Muzza cheers, it's a sign of affection, you should be flattered

If it's allowed for some, it's allowed for all. (yes, I'm cracking up).

A fairer system is needed - at the very least to stop conspiracy theorists getting on everyone's tits.

*"drivers could be nervous about making a pass"

Make your own joke here > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Quiet One 15]

Sorry, but I'm a little lost here. Wasn't the penalty to Vettel because he didn't stop when told to do so because his front left tire was destroyed? In that case, the penalty is ok, as it was dealt to avoid hazards to other dirvers.

As for the accident itself, it was a stupid ballsy but stupid manoeuvre solved in a lame way by both of them. No penalties deserved for that.

All in all, even if the drivers looked far from being "the pinnacle of racing drivers", it was still good to see them battle. It is also good to see the innovation that gave the small teams an edge, legal or not, loophole or not. These kind of things were the stuff that made F1 so thrilling in days of old!

These kind of controversies I can take.

I just hope stewards don't start questioning everything because then the drivers will feel the right to complain about everything. And fun will be effectively ruined.

[freaky2 1]

Andr