Minchia!

Fire Arms...yay Or Neigh

83 posts in this topic

I'm tired of arguing about religion so lets start another controvercial topic:

GUNS - This should be interesting considering the cosmopolitan population we have on this forum.

What do the members here think about owning / carrying fire arms?

I like to discribe myself as pretty liberal. I was born, and spent more than half of my life in Italy so I have a very European/ laid back mentality on most subjects. However, I do veer from the typical liberal mindset in that I am a gun enthusiast. Don't get me wrong, I am not some psycho that has holsters all over his body, a gun rack on his pickup truck and NRA t-shirts, waiting for the revolution! I do, though, own several pistols and rifles and I enjoy target shooting. I also have a gun for self/ home defence and I have a permit to carry concealed weapons. I also have extensive gun handling and tactical pistol training. I have seen too many cases where someone strolls into a mall/ McDonalds/ school/ home and opens fire on a group of innocent people. I refuse to be a victim and I will do any (repeat any)thing to protect my family.

Your thoughts?

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I have always been of the opinion that guns should not be allowed to be kept by civilains unless in extreme circumstances... I think (no proof) that it generally leads to more violence as if your drunk and angry with someone you have the opportunity to make a dumb mistake and kill him/her. which otherwise you probabbly wouldn't have...

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NRA Life member, lifetime shooter, firearms instructor, competitive in several disciplines ... And Ted Kennedy has killed more people than my (all legally owned and acquired) guns.

The subject is far deeper than most InterTube forum denizens are willing to think.

It will be interesting to see how this devolves. But, devolve it will.

Better go dig out my asbestos underwear.

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Guns are no different from any other form of weapon. It's a society issue. Guns don't kill people, rappers do;

Guns dont kill people rappers do,

Ask any politican and they'll tell you its true,

Its a fact music makes you violent,

Like Michael Jackson telling little Timmy to be silent,

You don't believe me? Heres my hype,

Offer me the record and i'll show you the type,

Of criminal this rap s##t is breedin,

Its a fact that MC Hammer left me bleedin,

Vanilla Ice made my mother say '****',

If I stuck with UB40 then I woulda been in luck,

But I didn't I got it wrong,

Cypress ****ing hill to me to make a ****ing bong,

So I started, I bought another tape,

That bad boy vibe made my c#ck and balls ache,

So remember kids from the head double tap,

Guns don't kill people its just rap!

chorus

Guns don't kill people rappers do

So do the police

Woo Woo Woo

Guns don't kill people rappers do,

I seen it in a documentary on BBC2,

Shot to death outside Hyper Value,

Guns blazin like Michael Cain in Zulu,

Guns with sadistic are sometimes misleading,

The type of criminal that rap is breedin,

Shot in the chest? No wonder you stopped breathin,

2 for the base over, are you receivin?

Remember rap tracks in '87

Scott the Rock's up ni Hip-Hop heaven,

Biggie and Tupac R.I.P,

Even Jam Master Jays in the cemetary.

chorus

Guns don't kill people rappers do,

I'm a ****ing rapper and I might kill you,

As a rapper I'm teachin you a lesson,

AK47 to Smith-and-Weston

Just say no, just like Zappo

Bullet proof vest, to guns and ammo,

Hip-hop gangster trippin,

Even Eminems into pistol whippin,

Its like cluedo murder one,

P-Diddy, J'lo in a nightclub with a gun,

Heard snoop dog now wants to bust a cap,

Guns dont kill people its just rap

One, Two yo face my shoe,

My name is Mike Balls and I'm comin through,

Gun crimes, stabbin, and burglarisation,

Its on a rise all across the nation,

The safety's off and the pistol is aimed,

Yardies and the Mafia always get blamed,

Politicians are shamed, and they haven't got a clue,

Rap is more deadly than ****ing Kung-Fu

chorus

Guns dont kill people rappers do,

From Bristol Zoo to B&Q,

I wanna rap, I wanna rhyme

Heard it in a song now im into gun crime,

Its a sign of the times like Prince changin his name,

Gotta have a shooter to be in the rap game,

Like Michael Ryan about to snap,

Guns dont kill people its just rap!

chorus

Outro

Okay, so maybe Goldie Lookin' Chain and their satire are not the best thing to bring to the discussion, but to make a wider point, if it's not rappers that are influencing young minds, it's the general materialism that has gone out of control that is the root cause, in my view.

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As Mr Ed would say

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa, horse is a horse, of course, of course

And nobody can talk to a horse, of course..........................

Sorry, I got carried away, I meant neigh nay

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I'll keep it simple...........HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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A loud NO

As Mr Ed would say

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa, horse is a horse, of course, of course

And nobody can talk to a horse, of course..........................

Sorry, I got carried away, I meant neigh nay

:lol::lol:

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Guns don't kill people rappers do,

I seen it in a documentary on BBC2,

Shot to death outside Hyper Value,

Guns blazin like Michael Cain in Zulu,

:clap3: Very clever!

A while ago I would have taken the usual european view, but after previous discussions on here I can understand the american viewpoint. Probably I'd still prefer tight controls on guns, on balance. What I can't understand about america is why they don't do something about the underlying causes of all the violent crime.

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Minchia, on the grounds of

I refuse to be a victim and I will do any (repeat any)thing to protect my family.
I agree with the right to bear arms. Old discussion on here some time ago, but having lost one of my family by murder, I feel just as strongly as you do about protecting my family. I was one of those that slagged the States off on this issue many years ago, but now the understanding is brutally clear - non of it has anything to do with 'fair' or 'right' anymore, politicians won't solve this (from Murray)
....why they don't do something about the underlying causes of all the violent crime.
anytime soon.

And now the hard part. I think a I have to apologise in advance if I sound condescending - it's not my intention. But with this issue coming up before, I have to ask this.......

Once you're used to handling weapons it's relatively easy (only compared to someone that isn't familiar) to point and shoot, but has anyone here ever used a weapon with the intention to kill, and succeeded?

I ask because once you've done that, there are issues you'll have to deal with that don't fall easy on the mind - no matter how justified you thought you were when pulling the trigger. For any of you that have been in the Forces, you probably know what I mean. I think I'm just trying to say, if you really believe that you would use arms to protect your loved ones and yourself, then you must prepare yourself for the possibility of a rough mental ride when you've taken that life.

Sorry, though I vote 'yes', I don't like thinking about using guns too much, so I hope the above made sense.

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I agree fully that the cause of increased violence is the society not the ability to carry weapons. There are countries that have STRICT no gun policies. Some of them have fewer violent crimes then the US (like Japan) and some have a higher (per capita) level of violent crimes (like Mexico or Australia). On the other hand a country like Switzerland, where gun availability is high, there is a very low level of violent crimes. A gun is a tool, like a car or a cheese grater. Anything can and will be used as a weapon, if necessary. In a society like the US, banning guns only hurts the law abiding citizen. The bad guys will always be able to get guns and as long as that stays true, I want to be on a level playing field.

I love and respect life, so the last thing I would like to do is take it away from somebody, even in self defense. Besides the messy legal process that would likely follow (even if I was perfectly justified), the moral and psychological implications are even more messy. That is why every gun law and safety course that I have taken STRONGLY recommends that you use deadly force only as a last resort and that if possible, try to flee the situation. If it only means that my HD flat-panel tv gets stolen - fine. That can always be replaced.

That being said, I would rather spend the rest of my life in jail than be dead - or worse lose my son or wife to some piece of scum. If just one of those people at Virginia Tech was carrying a gun, they might have been able to kill that son of a bitch before he took more lives.

Just my $.02

Edited by Minchia!

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I think if someone wants to do some damage badly enough they will with or without holding a gun - they will use whatever is available to them. It is not the gun that does the damage per se, but the individual who is holding it. And like with drugs if someone wants to get their hands on one badly enough they will, legally or illegally.

I think in the majority of cases the people who hold licences for weapons are not the ones we need to worry about - it is the ones who don't.

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I think if someone wants to do some damage badly enough they will with or without holding a gun - they will use whatever is available to them. It is not the gun that does the damage per se, but the individual who is holding it. And like with drugs if someone wants to get their hands on one badly enough they will, legally or illegally.

I think in the majority of cases the people who hold licences for weapons are not the ones we need to worry about - it is the ones who don't.

Agreed.

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No firearms whatsoever. Nobody. No more.

Don't want to make a deep reasoning. I just don't want them.

I hate guns. I hate military forces. I hate the idea of fighting violence with violence.

I would love and certainly support the concept of solving every dispute by means of a good fist fight, even if that means that I would get my a## whopped every time.

I will stand before Bruce, and put a rose in the cannon of his rifle...and get the hell out of there because I'm sure he will shoot to kill!

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No firearms whatsoever. Nobody. No more.

Don't want to make a deep reasoning. I just don't want them.

I hate guns. I hate military forces. I hate the idea of fighting violence with violence.

I would love and certainly support the concept of solving every dispute by means of a good fist fight, even if that means that I would get my a## whopped every time.

I will stand before Bruce, and put a rose in the cannon of his rifle...and get the hell out of there because I'm sure he will shoot to kill!

If there were no guns, religion, war (jeez, I sound like John Lennon) the world would be a much nicer place, but that is utopian blatherskyte and like I said before - as long as Mr. Scumball Murderer Druggie can get his hands on a gun, I don't want to be at a disadvantage. I am trying to carve out a little piece of paradise for myself, my wife and my child in this crazy, messed up world. To hell with the rest of humanity. I can't allow someone who has f'ed up his own life, to invade my little perfect world, shattering the serenity of my home which I have worked so hard to create.

I do favor strongly, (because of my lack of faith in the publics use of common sense) making it much more difficult / expensive to legaly obtain a firearm - ESPECIALLY if you have children, just as I think it should be much more difficult / expensive to get a drivers license. I don't believe that it is a right to have either - it is a privilage. Just a quick browse through youtube to see some of the quasi-retarded people out there that do have guns is enough to terrify me. Too many kids have accidentally killed them selves or others because of stupid parents that are uneducated on the proper use, storage, and handling of a firearm. My weapons are all in a huge gun safe and the ammunition is stored seperately. My home defense weapon is loaded, but it is in a biometric pistol safe right by my bed and it only opens for myself or my wife. On top of that, my 5 year old son has handled and fired guns on the range so he knows how loud, scarry and dangerous they are.

Edited by Minchia!

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Sorry, my post was no rebuttal to your post or any other.

I know many people think like you. What can I say? I still don't want them.

I don't have much to say except that.

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Sorry, my post was no rebuttal to your post or any other.

I know many people think like you. What can I say? I still don't want them.

I don't have much to say except that.

Sorry if that came off a bit harsh :blush: . I can't help it - I'm Italian. When I get fired up about something, I tend to get carried away in my rhetoric (you should see -or rather HEAR- the dinner table discussion at my house LOL).

Speaking of Italians:

http://tcc.itc.it/people/rocchi/fun/europe.html

This made me laugh!!

Edited by Minchia!

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Nope, you didn't came out harsh. I was just clarifying my POV, which I know is not of much help.

As for the how an italian table discussion, I think I know some of those. Argentina's population is mostly descendants from Italians (not me). One of my ex-gfs was a daughter of an Italian couple (living all together, the nonna included)...oh, believe me, I know how those meals can be! :lol:

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I don't have a side. But I'll tell you, if we were gunna fight about it, the guys with the guns would win ;)

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That being said, I would rather spend the rest of my life in jail than be dead - or worse lose my son or wife to some piece of scum. If just one of those people at Virginia Tech was carrying a gun, they might have been able to kill that son of a bitch before he took more lives.

In my uni now , we are having this debate, wether to allow students to carry guns... Thankfully most college students are opposing it... I agree what happened in Vtech and NIU was bad (especially since the guy at NIU came from my uni) but i still think having guns will increase crime overall, if not bloodshed more mugging and stuff...

I think if someone wants to do some damage badly enough they will with or without holding a gun - they will use whatever is available to them. It is not the gun that does the damage per se, but the individual who is holding it. And like with drugs if someone wants to get their hands on one badly enough they will, legally or illegally.

I think in the majority of cases the people who hold licences for weapons are not the ones we need to worry about - it is the ones who don't.

I talk about the people in between who are not that level that they want to kill but just a wee bit lower... The convience of a gun to kill someone is its far too easy... And my other concern is which i mentioned in my first post about angry drunks using it...

Speaking of Italians:

http://tcc.itc.it/people/rocchi/fun/europe.html

This made me laugh!!

Very funny video... We have a very similar situation in India... :D

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Guns are dumb. Shooting deer etc for sport is dumb. Shooting a deer to put food on your table that you would otherwise have starved is acceptable, but only SAFE, SANE, and REGULATED people should be allowed to do that...ergo...a farmer farms the deer, sends the deer to the abatoir, deer is killed in controlled and regulated place, me then have full belly.

So in conclusion: guns are dumb.

Spread the love, not the bullets.

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Cars can be as dangerous as guns.

There was an accident a week ago in Spain and 9 finnish tourists died in a couch because of a drunk b#####d driving a 4WD.

Guns can be as dangerous as cars, if I had one sometimes I'd...

:angry:

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Minchia, on the grounds of I agree with the right to bear arms. Old discussion on here some time ago, but having lost one of my family by murder, I feel just as strongly as you do about protecting my family. I was one of those that slagged the States off on this issue many years ago, but now the understanding is brutally clear - non of it has anything to do with 'fair' or 'right' anymore, politicians won't solve this (from Murray) anytime soon.

And now the hard part. I think a I have to apologise in advance if I sound condescending - it's not my intention. But with this issue coming up before, I have to ask this.......

Once you're used to handling weapons it's relatively easy (only compared to someone that isn't familiar) to point and shoot, but has anyone here ever used a weapon with the intention to kill, and succeeded?

I ask because once you've done that, there are issues you'll have to deal with that don't fall easy on the mind - no matter how justified you thought you were when pulling the trigger. For any of you that have been in the Forces, you probably know what I mean. I think I'm just trying to say, if you really believe that you would use arms to protect your loved ones and yourself, then you must prepare yourself for the possibility of a rough mental ride when you've taken that life.

Sorry, though I vote 'yes', I don't like thinking about using guns too much, so I hope the above made sense.

Very interesting.

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Gun Related Murders per 100,000 of population in 2002 (From Sunday Times)

USA - 4.08

Canada - 0.54

Australia - 0.25

England and Wales - 0.12

Scotland - 0.12

Japan - 0.04

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