DriftingGuy

The Rot At Mclaren's Core

68 posts in this topic

The lies, the coverups, followed by the sanctions which are then followed by the sackings and suspensions .. it's all too familiar now. Hamilton and Ryan look like fools. Martin Whitmarsh is an idiot. This culture of win at all costs, was started by Ron Dennis and it just keeps going on like the Duracell Bunny. As for Lewis Hamilton himself, well, the British contingent better line up behind Jenson Button instead, for he is far nicer...

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I think Ryan, whilst he may have been economical with the truth, seems to have been made the scapegoat in all this.

A tad harsh perhaps.

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they had a game of pin the blame on the patsy

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Hamilton was being honest from the start with his admission to the media after the race. He was then stuck in an awkward position of having to stand by what his team said afterwards, out of some kind of obligatory loyalty. Hamilton is not a liar. End of topic.

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culture of win at all costs, was started by Ron Dennis

I'd say it was started by Herr Schumacher when he rammed Damon Hill to win the '94 title. Actually it was probably started by Senna before him.

Anyway once again mclaren look bad, ferrari must be laughing their heads off. Poor Ron, I bet he wishes he hadn't stepped down now. Its falling apart!

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Yes, it's been going on for a long, long time and it isn't just Hamilton or McLaren who do it either. They just did it unbelievably badly this time.

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I'd say it was started by Herr Schumacher when he rammed Damon Hill to win the '94 title. Actually it was probably started by Senna before him.

Anyway once again mclaren look bad, ferrari must be laughing their heads off. Poor Ron, I bet he wishes he hadn't stepped down now. Its falling apart!

Oh, young people! You must read some F1 history! If recall 70

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I think Ryan, whilst he may have been economical with the truth, seems to have been made the scapegoat in all this.

A tad harsh perhaps.

My thoughts exactly :D

Hamilton was being honest from the start with his admission to the media after the race. He was then stuck in an awkward position of having to stand by what his team said afterwards, out of some kind of obligatory loyalty. Hamilton is not a liar. End of topic.

+1 agree Jez.

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Hamilton was being honest from the start with his admission to the media after the race. He was then stuck in an awkward position of having to stand by what his team said afterwards, out of some kind of obligatory loyalty. Hamilton is not a liar. End of topic.

Hamilton is grown up. He has chosen not to tell truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He is not guilty of not telling everything. He is guilty of telling lies. When directly asked if he was instructed to let Toyota pass him. He said "NO". Regardless of the spin you are trying to put on it, it is lie.

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Hamilton was being honest from the start with his admission to the media after the race. He was then stuck in an awkward position of having to stand by what his team said afterwards, out of some kind of obligatory loyalty. Hamilton is not a liar. End of topic.

If Hamilton is not a liar, then why didn't he tell the stewards the truth? Or are saying that Hamilton said what he said because he's a team player, and he just listens to orders. But lying is lying, there's not exceptions to lying.

I think it's funny what he said in here: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/04/03/...alia-situation/

Hamilton: I am not a liar or a dishonest person, I am a team player. Every time I have been informed to do something, I have done it.

If he said that, then why didn't he listen to Ron Dennis when Ron Dennis told him to move over for Alonso back in 2007, and I guess telling Ron Dennis to F a shovel is also being a team player.

He made the decision not to listen to Ron Dennis that time, why didn't he make the decision not to listen Dave Ryan?

You said Hamilton is not a liar, end of topic. I think Hamilton is a liar, end of topic.

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Hamilton is grown up. He has chosen not to tell truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He is not guilty of not telling everything. He is guilty of telling lies. When directly asked if he was instructed to let Toyota pass him. He said "NO". Regardless of the spin you are trying to put on it, it is lie.

+1 agree

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I want to applaud all those that still believe Hamilton is not a liar and tell them that it's Alonso who's at fault, always. Hold on to that thought, hard, while I go fetch a crane.

Back in a jiffy.

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Now I am a huge Mclaren and Hamilton fan - however whats come to light is inexcusable. He has lied, blatently and I think its ridiculous that Dave Ryan who worked there for 35 years has been made a scapegoat in all of this - thats company loyalty for you isnt it?

Now whether or not Ryan instructed him to lie is purely academic because the team has that culture clearly. I think its a dreadful mistake, other teams have no doubt done this, but clearly not with such blatent lie. Now I think that (surprisingly) the FIA is saving Hamilton by saying that he was in an awkward position. Be that as it may he knew what was said and answered differently.

The funniest thing in all of this is that the lie served no purpose. At worst they would have had 4th, and more likely with the truth would have got 3rd. So I cant understand why on earth they would lie - Can someone tell me what this accomplished? They were in the right by being unsure and protecting their place by letting Trulli through - so I cant understand why or how they thought this was a good idea!!!!

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Halfie, you need to look at who (from FIA) was at that hearing and what role those people played in 2007 and 2008... Not only you will understand why Hamilton lied, you will also understand why he has now been fcked over.

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Hamilton and Mclarens' true colours are well and truly shining through!

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I always thought the rot set in F1 in the 70s.

The bottle is always half-full for you, isn't it?

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For me the bottle is always fully empty...

:wacko::beer22::wacko:

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A load of old bollocks blown out of proportion in order for people without a life to have something to talk about. This stuff has happened for years. The media, the internet and the sensation-hungry want blood, it makes me sick.

Can't we just go f*cking motor racing? If you want angels, go to heaven.

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A load of old bollocks blown out of proportion in order for people without a life to have something to talk about. This stuff has happened for years. The media, the internet and the sensation-hungry want blood, it makes me sick.

Can't we just go f*cking motor racing? If you want angels, go to heaven.

I do want angels... just take a look to my avatar!

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A load of old bollocks blown out of proportion in order for people without a life to have something to talk about. This stuff has happened for years. The media, the internet and the sensation-hungry want blood, it makes me sick.

Sorry Steve, what Hamilton did might have happened for years but McLaren have tryed to keep them clean firing Ryan and saying bollocks. It was very easy to admit they made a mistake but they never admit any wrongdoing, they accuse their own people.

We've seen that same things before.

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Hamilton was being honest from the start with his admission to the media after the race. He was then stuck in an awkward position of having to stand by what his team said afterwards, out of some kind of obligatory loyalty. Hamilton is not a liar. End of topic.

Common sense.

Hamilton is grown up. He has chosen not to tell truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He is not guilty of not telling everything. He is guilty of telling lies. When directly asked if he was instructed to let Toyota pass him. He said "NO". Regardless of the spin you are trying to put on it, it is lie.

Also true, yet you ignore the events that led up to the transgression.

If Hamilton is not a liar, then why didn't he tell the stewards the truth? Or are saying that Hamilton said what he said because he's a team player, and he just listens to orders. But lying is lying, there's not exceptions to lying.

I think it's funny what he said in here: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/04/03/...alia-situation/

Hamilton: I am not a liar or a dishonest person, I am a team player. Every time I have been informed to do something, I have done it.

If he said that, then why didn't he listen to Ron Dennis when Ron Dennis told him to move over for Alonso back in 2007, and I guess telling Ron Dennis to F a shovel is also being a team player.

He made the decision not to listen to Ron Dennis that time, why didn't he make the decision not to listen Dave Ryan?

You said Hamilton is not a liar, end of topic. I think Hamilton is a liar, end of topic.

Hamilton was put in a difficult decision and made a bad choice, very simple.

A load of old bollocks blown out of proportion in order for people without a life to have something to talk about. This stuff has happened for years. The media, the internet and the sensation-hungry want blood, it makes me sick.

Can't we just go f*cking motor racing? If you want angels, go to heaven.

I agree, there are a lot of angels on this forum, too.

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I agree, there are a lot of angels on this forum, too.

What Hamilton did is not that bad. He's got a penalty and he had apologised. But McLaren is now doing a lot of wrong things like firing Dave Ryan. That's the real problem here, they are a team so they face the result as a team. Even more when they knew what was going on from the start. Whitmarsh, Dennis... They'll never change.

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What Hamilton did is not that bad. He's got a penalty and he had apologised. But McLaren is now doing a lot of wrong things like firing Dave Ryan. That's the real problem here, they are a team so they face the result as a team. Even more when they knew what was going on from the start. Whitmarsh, Dennis... They'll never change.

If Ryan was the person who instructed Hamilton to do what he did, then I think it's fair enough that he suffers the consequence. He is a senior team member and should know better.

If more people in the senior management were involved, and Ryan has been made the 'fall guy' to try and save Lewis' reputation, then that is a great shame; I imagine he would complain, though.

I am open to believing either of those two scenarios happened, but we have no way of knowing exactly what happened, we only have Mclaren and Lewis' testimony of what happened, which says that it was he and Ryan who were culpable not the rest of the team.

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